We Shut Down State Mental Hospitals. Some Want to Bring Them Back.


On January 3rd 1999 a man named Andrew Goldstein wandered onto
the New York City subway platform and shoved a stranger named Kendra Webdale
into the path of an oncoming train. With the story making national news reporters dug into Golstein’s past and found
that he had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and had a history of violent episodes. He had been in and out of psychiatric facilities but his caretakers repeatedly released him
back into the streets against their better judgement because of
a shortage of available beds. The murder of Kendra Webdale brought attention
to our inability to provide adequate treatment to Americans
with severe mental health problems. Which 20 years later is still ongoing. Prisons and jails are filled with inmates
exhibiting symptoms of mental illness and in need of treatment. Many of the homeless people crowding the streets
of cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York are mentally ill and in need of care. And violent episodes like the murder of Kendra
Webdale have brought renewed calls to bring back one
of America’s most controversial institutions. The mental hospital. And to entrust the state with more authority
to force psychiatric care on patients against their will. Some psychiatrists and bioethicists have proposed
‘bring back the psychiatric hospital.’ You know in the old days we had mental institutions and you could nab somebody like this because,
you did, they knew he was, something was off. The parents of mentally ill patients are among
the most vocal advocates. They shut down all the hospitals because oh we have all these medicines now
and everybody can be in recovery. Well the unfortunate fact is not everybody
recovers. So where do they go? What do they do? So is it time to bring back the asylum? And why did it disappear in the first place? My contention is that there is no mental illness
and there can be no mental illness. In the mid 20th century the libertarian psychiatrist
Thomas Szasz first articulated a theory that would rock
the profession and define his career. That the whole concept of mental illness was
a fraud. Thomas Szasz was a psychiatrist who didn’t
really believe in psychiatry. Having a book by him on your shelf is enough
to start an argument. Jacob Sullum interviewed Szasz for Reason
magazine in 2000 and cites him as a major influence on his
own work. He argued what people call mental illness
is not a literal disease but a metaphorical disease What he called problems in living, internal
conflicts, conflicts with yourself, conflicts with other people. You could ask people to define mental illness
and no one could. One could only give examples of it, like homosexuality. Which American Psychiatric Association wrote
that it’s no longer a disease, it’s only a disease if you don’t like it. At the time that Szasz was writing, lots of people were locked up who posed no
danger to other people and possibly not even dangerous to themselves
in any way. And might be subjected to what today look
like horrifying treatments but at the time were considered to be the
height of science. Here the skull is thin enough to transmit
light and it usually can be perforated easily by
the sharp instrument without damage to any important structures. But the man who discovered lobotomy and got
the Nobel prize did on people who didn’t want to be lobotomized, tens of thousands of Americans were subjected
to lobotomy did they want to be lobotomized? Lobotomy, if you take a sharp object and stick it up through someone’s eye socket
and jiggle it around in the brain, this person who used to be troublesome and
disruptive will calm down often. Maybe what you end up with somebody who is
now less troublesome to other people but is impaired for the rest of his life. And you look back and you think how could
that have happened? Like how did they think that was a legitimate
medical treatment? That was the context. Szasz helped to inspire the deinstitutionalization
movement that started in the 1950s and hit it’s stride
in the 60s. The time has come for a great national effort, nearly half of the 530,000 persons in our
state mental hospitals are in institutions with over 3000 patients,
getting little or no individual treatment. Many of these institutions have less than
half of the professional staff required. 45% of them have been hospitalized for ten
years or more. If we launch a broad new health program now,
it will be possible within a decade to reduce the populations now under custodial
care by up to 50%. Mental hospitals started emptying out and
closing down. But critics say deinstitutionalization was
a disaster, dumping thousands of mental patients onto
the streets with no plan. Even Szasz criticized the way deinstitutionalization
unfolded. He thought it sort of doubled the injustice. That those people were not offered the choice
to stay, this is their home they’re being thrown out
of now. So he thought that was wrong. The number of psychiatric hospital beds available
dropped by 95% between 1955 and 2005 according to the treatment
advocacy center. Starting in 1960 as the mental health population
in hospitals declined, the number of mentally ill people in jails
and prisons shot up. A 2011 Supreme Court case filed against the
California Bureau of Prisons revealed that some mentally ill inmates were held in telephone booth sized solitary
cells. Some reformers say it’s time to cast aside
Thomas Szasz and his attack on the mental health establishment. I got to say Szasz has been totally disproven it’s kind of like believing the church’s teachings
on an Earth centric universe. DJJaffe first became aware of the enormous
problems in America’s mental health system after his sister in law was diagnosed with
schizophrenia and it proved enormously challenging to get
her the treatment she needed. My sister in law thought that people across
the street were talking about her, the FBI planted a transmitter in her head. There are a section of the mental health industry that believes being psychotic and delusional
is a right to be protected rather than an illness to be treated. Being psychotic and delusional is not an exercise
of free will, it’s the inability to exercise free will. And medications can free people from the Bastille
of their psychosis and enable them to engage in society. Jaffe says that the Szasz did offer a valid
critique of overreach and over-diagnosis in the mental health industry. There are pieces of these anti-psychiatrists
which are true. When you talk about someone with mild depression,
mild ADHD is it so abnormal as to be classified as a
disorder? And we are certainly over-diagnosing and medicalizing
that group. People have gotten the sense that he had good
critique at the time but it’s sort of outmoded it really isn’t outmoded, I mean if anything the territory claimed by psychiatry
is expanding more and more. Look at all the other things that are covered
by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual which is the psychiatric bible, right? But when it comes to the 4% of the population that the National Institute of Mental Health
characterizes as having a serious mental illness Jaffe says healthcare professionals need far
more power to involuntarily commit patients to dedicated
treatment centers. The civil commitment law is not good enough, it basically requires someone to become danger
to self or others, we should prevent people from becoming danger
to self or others not require them to become danger to self
or others. Jaffe also advocates for a policy called,
assisted outpatient treatment. New York passed Kendra’s law in November 1999 after Goldstein’s murder of Kendra Webdale. It allows a judge to order outpatient treatment
for anyone with a pychiatric diagnosis who’s recently been jailed or hospitalized
as a result of going untreated and who the court determines will likely deteriorate
further without intervention. And I would suggest that it is a libertarian’s
dream. It has lowered rates of homelessness, arrest,
incarceration, needless hospitalization in the 70% range for the most seriously mentally
ill. And from a libertarian perspective they maintain
more of their freedoms than the alternatives which are inpatient commitment or incarceration. This idea that we should just abandon the
seriously mentally ill, who don’t recognize their need for treatment, serves neither the liberty interest of the
individual, the financial interest of society, or the interest of trying to keep the public
safe. When you’re trying to get help for someone, especially for Misty who didn’t feel like
she needed help, it’s very very difficult. Linda Mayo who lives in Modesto California has been advocating for the enactment of Laura’s
law in her home county. She’s the mother of twin daughters, both with
severe mental illnesses and it’s through their experiences that she
became an advocate for strengthening the involuntary commitment
and compulsory treatment laws. It’s not a panacea, it’s not going to help
everyone, but the people who refuse treatment and consistently
refuse treatment and who are in and out of the hospital, in
and out of jail, homeless, suicidal it can help them. Mayo believes that the legal obstacles to
involuntary commitment could’ve cost her daughter her life. One day five years ago Misty, who was 38 and
has schizoaffective disorder vanished. Mayo discovered that after collecting her
$200 paycheck she had boarded a bus to Los Angeles. I was frantic, she was in a big city that
she was unfamiliar with and we had no family or friends there, very
little money, I thought ‘$200 that’s going to go fast.’ She had already been sleeping in the parks
here before she left and roaming the streets so I thought, in LA, it scared me more. Another week and a half went by, finally the
phone rang, it was LAPD. She was in a neighborhood and sitting on a
cliff and the neighbors were concerned about her. In Mayo’s view, Misty posed a threat not
only to herself but to others as well. Mayo later found out that during the time
she was missing Misty had been arrested in a shopping mall. I can’t tell you what was going through her
head but she was trying to take a baby out of a
baby carriage. And the mother said no and Misty didn’t heed
that. So she was arrested. For years Misty had been refusing therapy
and medication. After her arrest the state had legal grounds
for forcing her to comply with treatment. Linda believes this saved Misty’s life. I was very happy that she was being allowed
to be in the hospital for a longer period of time that would require some stabilization. Laura’s law in her view creates a legal path to getting seriously mentally ill patients
like Misty the help they need before they pose a threat to themselves or
others. This is one step saying ‘ok we want to catch
you in a court order before it’s a crime, before it’s hospitalization, before it’s homelessness.’ But some mental health advocates say that
Laura’s law and similar bills violate the rights of even seriously mentally
ill patients. There’s a big perception in my community that
once they get their claws on you, just like law enforcement, they’re not letting
you go if they can help it. Richard Krzyzanowski who himself has suffered
from severe depression is a patients rights advocate who has worked
for LA county representing mentally ill individuals committed
against their will. Some of the most dis-empowering and dangerous
words anyone can say is ‘we’re doing this for your own good.’ you know, ‘we’re here to help you.’ But if I’m not asking for help. When you see somebody walking down the street,
screaming ‘I am the messiah.’ It’s not because they think they are the messiah,
they know they’re the messiah. They are unaware that they are ill and we
should be delivering treatment to them. But Krzyzanowski says that mental health professionals
and reformers often abuse the concept of ‘too sick to know
you are sick’ to violate the rights of the mentally ill. It’s a way of saying ‘I don’t have to listen
to you.’ or more to the point ‘you’re now voiceless.’ The whole involuntary treatment is a hard
balance. No one wants involuntary, all the advocates
that I have talked to, this is the last thing that we want. But there are cases that require it. And Krzyzanowski says that even though the
state institutions are gone to this day, many psychiatric patients are
locked in facilities for weeks or even months at a time under court orders giving legal power over
financial and healthcare decisions to a third party under an arrangement called conservatorship. The most difficult calls we would get, especially
during anybody’s holiday season. Would be people on conservatorship, who are
locked away somewhere they were able to get a phone call and you just felt like you were talking to
one person alone like they’ve been locked away in a dungeon and they hadn’t seen, like, the light for
months. Another problem with the idea of bringing
back state mental hospitals is that in the current system commitment often
exacerbates symptoms. A study published in the medical journal Psychiatric
Services found that alarmingly high numbers of patients
admitted to one state run mental health system witnessed traumatic events, were secluded
or restrained and even suffered physical assault. We can change the whole historic dynamic of the use of coercion in people with serious
mental illnesses. Psychiatrist Scott Zeller is the founder of the Alameda
Model, a movement dedicated to reforming how mental
health institutions operate. It focuses on getting psychiatric patients
out of hospital emergency rooms as quickly as possible and into dedicated mental facilities that
respect their right to personal space and freedom even if they’ve been involuntarily committed. Typically if you’re in a psychiatric emergency, you’re very paranoid, or you’re very frightened
or you’re very despondent, or you’re very
anxious. And imagine going into the general ER with
those kind of symptoms and basically being put into a small space and says ‘you’re going to have to stay here
and you can’t move.’ You know, people tend to get worse in ERs. The Providence Medical Center in Saint Peter
California which uses Zeller’s approach is a stand alone
building just down the road from a hospital. Unlike in hospitals which are often lacking
in on call psychiatrists staff are able to medicate and stabilize patients
around the clock sometimes through the use of telepsychiatry
if a doctor isn’t on site with the goal of discharging them for outpatient
treatment within the first 24 hours of admission. People can move about, nobody’s telling them
‘get back in that corner’ or, what we find is the vast majority of the time,
these folks are going to get better within ten, fifteen, twenty hours tops. And the idea that we were holding them for
three days to send them to a hospital makes so little sense when you could have
had them home the same day. The average psychiatric emergency patient
in a general medical ER it may be 25-50% of them being physically
restrained, leather restraints around wrists, ankles. In an empath unit we’re talking about far
less than 1%. People respond very well to a supportive,
interacting, nurturing environment not so much to a coercive cold environment,
go figure. Is social division within the province of
medicine? Zeller says there’s one lesson from Szasz that family members of the seriously mentally
ill should internalize: there’s no level of coercion that can force
some people to conform with societal norms. As long as they don’t pose a danger to themselves
or others in some cases the best path forward is acceptance. If someone says ‘I want to live in a tent
downtown.’ Pretty much you have to let them. It’s really really difficult to determine
when you should believe that they no longer have the right to decide
for themselves. I think that we should be overly safe on the
side of protecting individual rights. I can’t have pictures up in my house of when they were babies in junior high and
high school and college it’s the shine, the light in their eyes that
I miss. That sense of joy and fun and happiness is
out of the eyes and that makes me really sad.

100 thoughts on “We Shut Down State Mental Hospitals. Some Want to Bring Them Back.

  1. I'm still at a loss as how schizophrenia can be proven. Insisting on ridiculous scenarios is reflex for those who crave attention. No acting ability necessary. The best cure is to ignore so called psychotic behavior as you would ignore a child's tantrum.
    I believe genuine cases exist but that they are statistically insubstantial.
    As soon as you decide you can tell what's best for another human being instead of what is best for society you're going to be wrong at least half the time. If you assess the problem based on what is beneficial for the greater community your percentage of making a good decision can exceed 90%.
    Individual freedoms and "rights" end when they interfere with other people contributing to the greater good. No one is not expendable except to those few family and friends who cannot accept reality because of the lens through which they are looking feeling.

  2. Maybe you could have some compassion for the people mental hospitals and psychiatric wards still hurt to this day?
    Being court-ordered to stay on major sedatives for the rest of your life isn't much less disabling or degrading than being subjected to lobotomy.
    Being confined to a hospital because other people see you as dangerous, being locked up for crimes you might commit, that's not remotely justified.
    There are still everyday horrors in the mental health system, coercive and violent and dehumanizing as it is.
    More needs to be done to expand availability of voluntary mental health services, but involuntary hospitalization should be done away with in all but the most severe criminal cases.
    If people were safe to disclose their mental illness without the entirely justified fear that they'll be misunderstood and imprisoned for it, a lot more people would actually seek help.
    In almost every case, patients only actually recover when they voluntarily accept treatment, whereas forced treatment just causes trauma and further victimization of the mentally ill.
    Even modern mental hospitals are truly horrible and unsafe places for patients.
    The idea that we've improved mental healthcare enough to make forced treatment pleasant, desirable, or acceptable is completely false.

  3. I'm probably on the "mad pride" end of the worldview spectrum on this. True health is offered not forced, consequences should be natural not contrived, and people who get into positions of authority almost always get there by being JUST A TAD CLUSTER-B THEMSELVES (as opposed to "wise").

  4. Real treatment for most mental issues would start with antiparasitics = wormwood/black walnut etc. Lunacy, or increased madness around the full moon is caused by increased activity in these gut/brain worms with their excreations being toxic to the brain. Western Med actively works against the diagnosis of this issue so we must all study this for ourselves. Before the Rockefeller Foundation took over US med in the early part of 1900 mothers routinely gave strong tonics to their families to purge worms and microbes. We need to return to Dr Mom running the show and stop turning our health & lives over to those who profit from our disease = The Merchants of Suffering.

  5. I was threatened by my psychiatrist with institutionalization when I was 16. My mother didn't know about it, and I didn't even want to see this quack. The shrink didn't have the power to do what he said and thank God for that because I'm 36 now and there's nothing wrong with me. I've never had a real diagnosis anyway. High function this or borderline that.
    Edit: Frankly since having so many drugs forced down my throat from age 6 til 16 it boggles my mind that I'm sane at all. Always follow the money.

  6. The end of times will come about via good intentions. It's a terrible thought I know, but the main reason many of these people even exist is due to the fact that natural selection has lost its hold on us. Imagine if everything we know stopped working immediately. How many people would die due to lack of medication, lack of assisted living, lack of knowledge of basic survival skills, etc., etc.? I'm not for euthanasia or abortion, but what do you do when the only way to better humanity is through hardship, conflict, and competition? What do you do when a society is so drunk on it's own success that it forgot the luck of it even existing?

  7. Mental illness is real. Having said that.
    If like the first guy in this piece you kill well jail time for you no apologies or regrets for this comment .The insanty defense is B S.
    If the crime was committed then punishment is deserved.
    Fyi I'm thoroughly convinced that some people are broken and can't be fixed and as a society we must accept this .

  8. Schizophrenia simply likely just the Pioneer gland and pituitary glands with auto shut-off switch that's producing endless DMT and turn from their endless hallucinations oh, other than that this idea of mental illness just cannot exist some simply because there are you cannot observe it on a petri dish on a CAT scan or any other way, therefore it is not an illness and the most world-renowned psychiatrist on his retirement sad that his practice was equivalent to palm reading and crystal ball reading, it's simply not a science.. End of argument

  9. 54 years old , I remember when they closed down mental hospitals. They need to open them back up and get them off the streets!!!

  10. The opening black-and-white scenes of past out-dated forms of "treatment" don't help this presentation because it helps perpetuate the stigma against psychiatric treatments. I won't deny that some of the past treatments were not scientific and seem barbaric now, and that there have been abuse of psychiatric patients. I know that they discuss these "treatments" later, but the opening scenes were not narrated. Not sure why they had to do this as part of the presentation because there are patients now that are afraid to get treatment because they have been told about very scary things that occurred in the past, or think that a psych ward is full of people in straight-jackets, eating pudding.

  11. Simple solution: just change the signs in front of the universities to "Asylum for the Criminally Insane." And built a big wall around them.

  12. The state should legalize euthanization with the consent of the patient (if they are deemed mentally able, otherwise via court case and next of kin) and be more willing to execute those who are incarcerated and show that they will never be able to return and contribute to free society.

  13. Mental illness seems to be expanding exponentially…maybe we need to figure out why we are having such a huge population of mentally ill around…it could be this guy is right at least in most cases

  14. Obama CUT Mental Health Medications on Medicaid that led to the LaQuan McDonald shooting. If you say RACISM I say – Chicago(ilvehere) and Earpiece. He was TOLD to Fire and Kill Laquan. Obama and Lynch were here 3 months before starting shit!

  15. Remember the EUGENICS Programs in Connecticut in the 1920's. It is where the LABOTOMY was Pioneered 5,000 Patients had their Brains Scrambled by a Metal Rod inserted thru the Eye Socket with NO anaesthetic. GOOGLE EUGENICS IN AMERICA

  16. Are you insane? If mental hospitals come back they will lock up everyone who supports the first and second amendments.

  17. Anyone who dreams of founding a company, running for office, or breaking a world record is psychotic and delusional. If you lock up all of them we wouldn’t have computers or big league sports. Admittedly no politicians would be fine. Just arrest criminals that commit crimes. People who have dreams and think big should not be removed from society.

  18. This is a horrible idea. For the first time in my life I want to become politically active so I can oppose this. You are suggesting arresting people who have not committed any crimes. And you think this is a good idea. Only the already powerful, who know they are safe, could be fine with that. This is Siberia in Russia. This is concentration camps during WWII. They are suggesting rounding up and confining people who have followed all of the rules. They want a free pass to arrest the folks that they haven’t been able to entrap into breaking any laws.

  19. If the real goal of this is just to move money medical insurance payouts from drug manufacturers to medical professionals I have a much better idea for you. Cover psychological counseling. Many people would be happy to attend, if it’s covered.

  20. It wasn't just that state institutions were shut down. It was the fact that they were nationalized. As with anything it is better to have the civic infrastructure in the hands of the locals.

  21. So what's the problem with bringing them back? Fear of the old barbaric treatments?

    The forced commitment?

    Having treatment centers is a good idea, and we don't have to use heavy medication or barbaric treatments. I worked in the Florida prison system for five years, a lot of the thousands of inmates I met need serious mental help. A lot of them need help because of the medications the doctors put them on to try and help in the first place.

  22. I am a mental health provider. And I have to say we do need to bring back psychiatric hospitals or people can have longer-term stays. Most people that go into a psychiatric hospital only stay for 24 hours sometimes up to three days and very rarely any longer than that. Some of these people who have been my clients extremely dangerous and should not be let out. I'm sympathetic to the abuse has that happened in the past of course bought we do need to have some sort of containment system for these individuals for their safety and the safety of society. And even if we are not talking about dangerous individuals many people who are on the streets and in need of care long-term care aren't able to get it because of no longer having state-sponsored long-term psychiatric hospitals. We only hurt the negative history of these hospitals but we don't hear about a lot of the positives with these facilities. The term funny farm actually came from some of the state-sponsored psychiatric hospitals or charity psychiatric hospitals that were farms and talk people a skill and many people ended up living there for the remainder of their lives yes this is true but it was a much better existence than living on the streets that we have today. Seems like we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

  23. They need to it's completely out of control theas people and up on the streets and no one cares for theam

  24. Advocated for them to close down, then thought the way they did it was wrong. Libertarians always want their cake and to eat it too.

  25. These institutions were highly successful and efficiently helping people. Gov’t cut funding of these institutions. Lined their pockets. Conditions became unbearable. Closed down institutions. Taxes never went down.

  26. Ok try staying in a homeless shelter and watching a lady have a full blown argument with a broom. Or a guy that lools like santa took to much acid in the 70's just whacking it and eatin chips in the public restroom. There are real mental patients out there just roaming the streets and they need assistance or facilities to take care of them. Last thing you want is somebody who literally believes angels tell her what to do running around attacking people because "they were demons and they eat souls".

  27. Leftist called for closing of Mental Hospitals after the movie “one flew over the coockoo’s nest” made people feel sorry for mental patients not realizing the danger of allowing some loose who are dangerous to themselves and other and believing they will be disciplined enough to take medication day after day.

  28. It figures that it was a Democrat who came up with the idea of closing mental hospitals and dumping the patients onto the streets.

  29. The depraved Left then went on to claim that Reagan as responsible for de-institutionalizing and creating the homeless crisis. And it is exploding in Democrat-run cities.

  30. For the love of the FSM WTF! Are there truly such monumentally ignorant people around who believe this drivel?

    Deinstitutionalization in the 50's and 60's was not driven by a libertarian no one has heard of and no one ever thought was right. JFK supported it because his own sister had been lobotomized while in a mental hospital to make her less troublesome. The movement was actually started by Nellie Bly's reporting of conditions on Blackwell Island in 1887 and subsequent reports of the conditions inside other institutions. No one ever seriously considered that there was no such thing as mental illness.

    By the 1980's most people in public mental institutions were there due to serious mental illnesses. It Was Reagan and his ilk, mainly libertarian types, cutting federal support for mental health care that resulted in many states closing their public mental hospitals which is when the flood of mentally ill homeless occurred. People unable to care for themselves or function in society being on the street was entirely driven by libertarians and their allies.

    As to this nonsense that a person who refuses treatment must be respected because we don't want to limit their freedom, how stupid. First and foremost until they are treated and stabilized no one has any idea what they'll really want. Second there are fatal illnesses that present with psychiatric symptoms. Should we let a combative person leave an ER simply because they say they don't want treatment? For the unaware that is a classic symptom of meningitis a curable disease that untreated is lethal and communicable. Third, and this shouldn't even need to be brought up, a person's right's end where other people's noses begin. A mentally ill person who refused treatment should not be allowed to assault others simply because "freedom."

  31. I've been hospitalized in psychiatric clinics four times, three times two years ago and one time last years. I do everything I am able to hide my symptoms, I hated every minute in those places.

    Your rights dont exist in those places.

  32. The anatomical development of contempt for the suffering from lobotomies (an attempt to subdue irksome relatives and children because of the parents failure to nurture with love and compassion) to the easy way out of forcing medications (as though it were a panacea for the same above reasons) on the sufferer. Nothing has changed.

  33. So turning them out in the streets is a worse solution because they are shitting in the streets and public transportation as well as causing greater costs to law enforcement.

  34. For weird ass offenders not for just violent people I think it’s funny u let sex offenders sodomites transgenders an all that child molester free an murderers who try to bring vigilante justice get time ur stupid and fuck u

  35. one schmuck Doctor can destroy a civil society. Must of the patients who left the mental facilities ran for office and run the country in washington which supports their delusions of grandeur

  36. I'm a property manager in Canada. I remember in the mid 80's when they closed the mental institutions that's when it started. The homeless crime all increased. They said these people have the right to be free well they slso have the right to proper medical care. This was all planned by the same people that are screwing things up now. Wake up people this IS planned…UN!

  37. Can't lick em up in Canada until they hurt themselves or someone else so someone has to die first. Politicians for ya.

  38. All have a human right to proper care. The problem is with the doctors they know nothing been experimenting for past 100 years on human race.

  39. maybe not prison hospitals quite yet but fixing health care so everyone can get mental heath care might be in order, don't hear of rich psychos shooting up shit, they have insurance and mental health care, can afford the therapy and meds. we the people need health care for all

  40. some mental illnesses are just like some physical illnesses, caught early and keep under treatment will impact your life the lest, but left untreated will be come deadly to you. mental illnesses as such can at time be deadly to another also unfortunately.

  41. I find this topic very interesting. I have seen many sides of this issue. Makes me want to create my own plans.

    Also, if were are going to do this…then we need to look at each of the different parameters. There are many topics to consider.

  42. I am thinking that a Guideline Book would be good. Not government control just yet. Let's get Guidelines published. With topics to consider. Categories.
    Then describe what each category needs, how to get it, and so on.

  43. Families should be given ultimate Guardianship.

    We know that Parents have authority of their children, until the age of 18. We also know that when a person becomes incapacitated, usually a family member will have legal authority for medical care, finances, and so on. The same should be for those being committed.

    The family members should have a major vote on the decision to commit. The family members should also have complete oversight on what kind of living and health treatment the person experiences.

    Therefore it is not as much to the state, as it is the family, those who know the person best, for decision to commit, medical treatment, and when to release, etc.

    That is an initial idea. Improve on it if you want.

  44. One of the biggest problems with mental health care in the US is the notion of a "one size fits all" approach to it. Just as different drugs are prescribed to patients, so should the notion of hospitalization/institutionalization. There can be guidelines, yes, but decisions should be made by mental health professionals, patient families, and whenever possible, patients themselves.

  45. It's  just a nice way to let down some people and let them die in the Streets. Just because some people do not want to pay taxes… Let's be frank these people do not give a shit about well being or freedom of others people they just don't want to pay taxes. They just forget that we live in A SOCIETY not like islands in the middle of nowhere! We NEED each others! They are at best delusional, or at worst just plain selfish. Personally, I think they are delusionnaly selfish.

  46. There was a time when the mentally ill who were shunned by society were placed in a farm like institution. They grow their own food and pursue their hobby. It's basically self-sustaining. I heard that local merchants were complaining that they shouldn't grow their food; that should be from a commercial source, the same with meat and diary. These patients shouldn't be working like slaves even though the food is for their consumption because it's unfairly competing with local tax paying, salaried workers , the argument goes. Those activities give them something to do. I wonder if this practice could be resurrected on a limited scale and a very careful oversight that abuse is prevented or immediately corrected. The mentally ill at present get psychiatric care but he or she has to be a criminal first and she gets it in prison.

  47. PTSS is just a joke and soldiers with shellshock are just cowards *sarcasm

    Psychiatrists whom vote on theories without scientific research are mentally sick .
    But it's the standard.

    Prozac and those kind of medicines are criminal .

  48. Thomas Wictor is a serious advocate of restoring federally operated mental hospitals. He has argued that the real reason we have a homeless crisis is that we closed the mental hospitals down decades ago.

    They can be rebuilt and made better and less institutional than the ones in the past.

  49. I finally find a ReasonTV video that I completely agree with, then I read the comments section :X

    In about half of RTV's videos I at least find interesting arguments from points of view other than my own. The other half are Stossel videos 😛 Kidding.
    He is far too anarchist/libertarian for me and he is usually just a misleading as other YT channels and even some broadcast news but he is at least rather smart.

  50. I was committed and put on meds. The meds caused me to be in AGONY for as long as I took them which was YEARS. None of my family believed me. Eventually I started drinking then smoking after ALWAYS turning down drugs and alcohol😢. Life isn't fair but my life was destroyed by the mental hospital AND ALL WHO KEPT ME THERE!!!. All that someone saying that their experience in the mental hospital was good or saying there should be more involuntary commitment makes me realize is how few will really go to heaven.

  51. I think real mental illness is *extremely rare*.

    The vast majority of people taking psychiatric drugs receive harmful effects with no benefit to their mind because they simply never needed them.

    I do think that a small percentage of people have mental illness. Are the psychiatric drugs on the market helpful to them? I have no idea.

  52. Asylums and prisons are very expensive. People on the streets are many times handled with a bus ticket. Take a ride west on the bus or go to jail.

  53. As a psychiatrist, and a libertarian I really enjoyed this video. I thought it was going to be a hit piece on my profession. Glad to see it was objective journalism. 👍

  54. Your beloved jfk also put those psychos back in amungst sociaty… Therefore getting people murdered by proxy….

  55. No…. new Hampshire still has a massive state funded and operated mental hospital so this is just false information

  56. I live in a extended household of 14 people where my older brother is a full-blown Bi-Polar Schizophrenic & its affected all of our lives for the past 2 or 3 years. When he had medication it minimized his erratic behaviors, but now we can’t even get medication for him because there’s a shortage of the medication from the place we usually get it from and they literally haven’t gotten the meds he needs in over a month. We now have to suffer with his crazy unpredictable behavior that trips all of us out on a daily basis especially the younger kids who don’t understand what’s going on with him solely because he hasn’t been taking any medication and now he’s acting more erratic than before.

    To make things worse, my parents who aren’t very patient or understanding with his disorder are contemplating abandoning him because they’re too overwhelmed, and I don’t blame them for it, they didn’t deserve for their son to turn out this way it’s been a living nightmare for everyone involved.

    In my personal situation I wish these institutions existed, why should we as a family have to suffer the rest of our lives with such a burden that we never EVER imagined we’d have to put up with? Maybe I’m irrational, but I think I’m reaching a breaking point and I feel defeated. It doesn’t look like it will ever get better.

  57. I live in a extended household of 14 people where my older brother is a full-blown Bi-Polar Schizophrenic & its affected all of our lives for the past 2 or 3 years. When he had medication it minimized his erratic behaviors, but now we can’t even get medication for him because there’s a shortage of the medication from the place we usually get it from and they literally haven’t gotten the meds he needs in over a month. We now have to suffer with his crazy unpredictable behavior that trips all of us out on a daily basis especially the younger kids who don’t understand what’s going on with him solely because he hasn’t been taking any medication and now he’s acting more erratic than before.

    To make things worse, my parents who aren’t very patient or understanding with his disorder are contemplating kicking him out onto the streets because they’re too overwhelmed, and I don’t blame them for it, they didn’t deserve for their son to turn out this way it’s been a living nightmare for everyone involved.

    In my personal situation I wish these institutions existed, why should we as a family have to suffer the rest of our lives with such a burden that we never EVER imagined we’d have to put up with? Maybe I’m irrational, but I think I’m reaching a breaking point and I feel defeated. It doesn’t look like it will ever get better.

  58. I love how people gripe about how Reagan shut down the mental hospitals but no one every seems to remember how corrupt and abusive they were.

  59. It is time to bring back the state mental hospitals. 1st time you get treatment, 2nd time you get short stay, 3rd time you become a ward of the state and permanent resident. I’m tired of tripping over drugged out homeless people.

  60. making involuntary commitment easier is one of the most anti libertarian ideas i can think of. Stripping people of rights (some permanently) so they can be more free? Gee, that wont be abused!

  61. The whole point of closing them down was to provide community based treatment instead of being isolated from friends and family while being treated. Outpatient treatment allows the patient to live at home instead of a locked hospital where they might not be able to get visitors. Its better than being sent 6 hours from where you used to live for a year or longer.

  62. In the current climate of "soft totalitarism", I'm completely against giving the state yet another tool to take people away, and this is a really powerful and frightening one.
    Already we see today all kinds of authority figures and powers that be using the "they are crazy/violent/dangerous" argument against any disenter. I'm a bible believing christian and the freaking Pope of Rome, head of the institution that used to publicly torture and burn "hereticks" like me, is now saying that there's a "violence of the mind" in people that affirm the authority of scripture and reject his. I have little doubt he'd be delighted to have such a tool at his disposal, with all legal backing, to declare those like me as "mentally ill" and commit us somewhere under the pretense of mental health.

    No, lady with the popping eyes, I'm sorry about your daughters, but I'm not up for making it that easy for the state to restrain people and put them on "medication".

  63. It's valid that some people just get back on the street and keep doing drugs over and over, and never get off of it. Personally? Throw the deviants and criminals in jail where they belong.

  64. There may be medicines to help those mentally ill, however, the patients may not always take their prescriptions. Then there are those who refuse care, what do you do with them? Yes, I say there is a need to bring back these hospitals.

  65. State facilities aren't gone? What the hell are they even talking about? They're just smaller than they used to be.

  66. Asylum's should be reintroduced to remove a big burden from our crumbling society. No they don't have to be those Victorian Hell holes, but more of a community for the mentally ill and the local community in general. the word "asylum" means place of safety, not just for the ill but for people effected by what they do? In an ever growing more psychopathic and narcissistic world that damages Economies and peoples lives and well being there is a need for place for the Asylum's return.

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