MD vs DO vs Caribbean for Medical School

If you want to become a doctor in the U.S.,
there are 3 main medical school paths to choose from: MD, DO, or Caribbean. Unfortunately, there’s a terribly large
amount of misinformation regarding the pros and cons of each, and which you should ultimately
choose. In classic Med School Insiders fashion, we’ll
cut the fat, debunk the myths, and give it to you straight. Dr. Jubbal, No matter what you may have heard, it does
matter which medical school path you take. It frustrates me that people’s egos and
pride get in the way of providing sound advice to pre-meds who deserve to know the truth. First, understand that the default path to
become a doctor is attending a U.S. allopathic medical school. At an allopathic medical school, you earn
your MD. However, getting into one of these medical
schools is insanely competitive, the reasons for which I have explored in a previous video. Link in the description below. For almost every pre-med, going the U.S. allopathic
route is the default, and the best choice. It keeps the most options and doors open moving
forward, and it doesn’t have any major drawbacks compared to its alternatives. However, 60% of applicants each year don’t
get into a U.S. allopathic medical school. Luckily, there are alternatives if you still
want to become a doctor. Osteopathic medical schools are those where
you earn a DO. This degree is technically distinct from the
MD, but you’re still granted the same rights in practicing medicine, and you’re still
a physician at the end of the day. If you want to know more about the differences
between the MD and DO, I have compared the two paths in a previous video. If you haven’t already, I recommend you
watch that video as a supplement to this video to get the full picture. Now a quick disclaimer about my first MD vs DO
video. It’s my most controversial video yet because
of the subject matter. The video is 100% factual, accurate, and I
stand by it completely. That being said, I did make an apology video
as a follow up where I doubled down on the facts presented but apologized for not treating
the topic more gently, as it is admittedly a heated conversation. The second alternative is going Caribbean,
where you earn your MD but at a medical school on a Caribbean island rather than in the United
States. While tropical climates and beach weather
year round may sound great, there are significant drawbacks to this option, which I have explored
in great depth in my video titled The Truth About Caribbean Medical Schools. At U.S. allopathic medical schools, over 90%
of graduates successfully match into residency, and attrition, meaning students who don’t
finish, is quite low at 4%. In short, the odds of finishing medical school
and successfully matching into a U.S. residency is good if you go to a U.S. MD school. For DO medical schools, the good news is that
you don’t have to be as strong academically to get in. According to the most recent data, the average
GPA and MCAT of DO medical school matriculants is 3.5 and 503, respectively, compared to
3.7 and 511 for MD schools. The match rate is in the mid 80’s, compared
to mid 90’s for allopathic schools. More on the Match and residency merger shortly. For Caribbean schools, the data are very different. Caribbean schools are by far the most approachable
by students with weaker academic records, and you are bound to find a school in the
region that will take you. But according to the NRMP, the Match rate
for U.S. citizens who are graduates of international medical schools is only 50%. There is a very important caveat to this data,
which is that within the Caribbean there is a large range in school quality. The match rates amongst the big 4 Caribbean
medical schools, including St. George’s, AUC, Saba, and Ross are higher, but still
nowhere near the level of their U.S. MD and DO counterparts. Additionally, attrition rates are abysmal,
anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the school. And remember, to even apply to residency,
to even begin paying off your study loans, you first need to finish medical school. There are several other worrisome trends about
Caribbean schools. For example, all medical schools in the Caribbean
are for-profit institutions, whereas less than 2% of U.S. based MD and DO schools are. Based on this data, it becomes clear that
U.S. allopathic medical schools should be your first option. The real question becomes what is the second
best option? If you’re unable to get into a U.S. MD school,
should you go DO or should you go Caribbean? The data suggests that DO schools are a clearly
superior option. These numbers may or may not be news to you,
but as we’ve been exploring on our Research Explained series, data is often misrepresented. It’s important to understand that statistics
apply to populations, not to individuals. We obviously cannot create randomized controlled
trials sending pre-meds randomly to MD, DO, or Caribbean medical schools. Therefore, there are certain biases we need
to take into consideration. First, student caliber matters. On average, the strongest students go to U.S.
MD schools, followed by DO schools, and finally Caribbean schools. Again, this is on average. Congrats to your mom’s friend’s cousin
who got a 520 on the MCAT and a 3.9 GPA and went to a DO school, but that doesn’t change
this fact. Therefore, some of the variation in the data
we see is due to the average caliber of the students rather than to the institutions themselves. It’s impossible to determine the exact magnitude
of this effect, but it is present. In other words, your individual efforts and
performance are factored into the equation, not just the school you go to. While MD vs DO vs Caribbean is a very important
decision, we may not be accounting for student contributions enough. Going back to your mom’s friend’s cousin
with the 520 and 3.9 would likely be fine at either DO or Caribbean programs, regardless
of the trends in the data. If you’re attending a DO or Caribbean program,
you can put your pitch forks down. I’m not saying you’re a weak student,
I’m just speaking to the population averages, as based on the data. Just reporting the facts. Plus, I fully believe that any student can
learn the right study techniques and tools to be a stellar student. That’s what this entire channel is about. Second, not all residency matches are created equal. Another point of oversimplification is the
Match rate. Match rate success as a percentage is only
part of the picture. Being able to go into your desired specialty
and at a strong program is also tremendously important. This is arguably the most frustrating part
of this entire conversation. I have heard others on social media, who I
will not name, telling pre-meds that going MD or DO does not matter. Shame on them. If you’re considering primary care, the
differences are present but they are diminished. However, it matters tremendously if you’re
considering a more competitive specialty. If you want to go into a hyper competitive
specialty like dermatology or plastic surgery, you’ll be far better off going to a U.S.
MD school over both DO and Caribbean medical schools. I’ve gone over the top competitive specialties
in a previous video so you can know for yourself where your specialty of interest ranks in
terms of competitiveness. Because of this, I’d still urge most students to
pursue U.S. MD options when possible, as it has been demonstrated that over 50% of medical
students change their specialty of choice during the course of medical school. For example, I entered medical school thinking
I would match into internal medicine, but I ended up falling in love with plastic surgery. The fact remains that if you go the DO route
and want to go into something hyper competitive, it’s going to be more challenging for you. It’s definitely not impossible. And again, congratulation to your dog’s
friend’s owner’s sister that went DO and matched into plastics, but that’s the exception,
not the rule. It doesn’t change the fact that it is much
tougher to go into hyper competitive specialties if you graduate from a DO or Caribbean program. Now you may be throwing your arms up in protest because won’t the residency merger solve all these problems? I’m glad you asked. Previously, MD students would apply for residency
in the MD Match, and DO students would often apply to both the MD and DO Matches. But beginning in 2020, there will no longer be
two separate Matches. Now, both MD and DO students will be applying
to residency under the same Match. I’ll start with a disclaimer. No one knows for certain what effects this
merger will have, unless you have a crystal ball. That being said, I have spoken with several
DO colleagues and admissions experts very familiar with the matter, and here’s what
they had to say. Some argue that the residency merger will
eliminate the problem altogether. After all, everyone will be applying to the
same residency programs, and we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. Others argue the opposite, that it will make
it even more difficult for DO students to match into competitive specialties. For example, some orthopedics or dermatology
DO programs have not made the cut when re-certifying by ACGME standards. As a result, there would be fewer spots for
a similar number of applicants. Equally important, those spots wouldn’t
be open to just DO applicants, but MD applicants as well. And MD applicants on average, again emphasis on average, have higher Step
1 and Step 2CK scores, due in part to their stronger average academic history, and also
because DO schools don’t generally focus their curricula around high-yield USMLE topics. Additionally, ACGME program directors don’t
trust COMLEX scores – the USMLE is preferred. Some argue that the COMLEX should even be
abolished and replaced by all DO students taking the USMLE with an addition of a smaller
supplemental exam to test them on osteopathic manipulative medicine, or OMM for short. Regardless, these are just two separate sides of the argument, no one knows for certain, and
only time will tell how the merger will effect the Match. It’s important to dispel some toxic misconceptions
I’ve heard thrown around. You may hear osteopathic medical students
or physicians suggest they prefer the DO degree because they want to treat their patients
holistically, implying the MD route isn’t holistic. This is an idiotic and toxic mindset that
only further divides DO’s and MD’s. You can be a phenomenal physician and treat
patients holistically regardless of your degree. Good doctors are good doctors, whether DO
or MD. The DO is still, unfortunately, subject to
a stigma that the MD is not. I mentioned this in my previous video and
got a few highly agitated comments. I don’t agree with the stigma, and MD and
DO physicians deserve equal respect. Again, the degree has little to do with one’s
abilities, merit, or skill as a physician. That being said, pretending the world is all
sunshine and rainbows to make you feel better doesn’t actually fix the problem. It’s dishonest and harmful to pre-med students
to deny these realities. Don’t shoot the messenger. This stigma is ultimately detrimental and
we should continue to actively work to reduce harmful misconceptions, but we need to in
a mature and ethical way. Lying to pre-meds is neither. Also, if you’re a DO and you never experienced
this stigma yourself, that’s awesome, and that likely points to progress being made
in this area, but I know dozens of DO medical student and physician colleagues who would
beg to differ. Lastly, after my DO physician colleague reviewed
this video script, she asked me to include one last thing: when going Caribbean, you
would earn your MD, and therefore wouldn’t have to deal with any stigma of the DO or
constantly explain to patients what the DO degree is. While a relatively minor point, this was factored
into her own decision and I’m including it here for you to assess yourself. Now to be honest, the reception to my first MD
vs DO video made me second guess myself. I feel so privileged and honored to have each
of you viewing my videos, and I take this YouTube channel very seriously. I want to provide sound advice and ultimately
help you all. As much as I derive joy, entertainment, and
even inspiration from the haters, the messages I received from that first video made me seriously consider
if I had misled you. So I reached out to almost a dozen DO medical
student and resident friends and colleagues, I rewatched the video multiple times, I double
checked the data, and all of that reassured me that the first video was valid. I have a feeling this video, despite my multiple
disclaimers, will rustle some feathers as well. But I remain committed to providing you with factual,
effective, and accurate information to help you in your journey to becoming the best possible
doctor. And as much as I love social media, it has the
side effect of augmenting the already problematic snowflake mentality. Outrage porn is a growing issue – many people
believe they have the right to not be offended, that their feelings are more important than
facts, and they should be able to silence those that make them uncomfortable, even if those people are speaking the truth. I don’t subscribe to this notion and I’d
rather cut through the noise and tell you the honest truth that you deserve to know,
even if it is unpopular for me to do so. I’m always open to being wrong and being
corrected. If you have data or logical arguments against
anything that I raised in this video, by all means let’s have a discussion down in the comments. But if you’d rather tell me how angry this
video makes you or how your cousin’s goldfish’s twin’s father went DO and matched plastics,
then perhaps we’ll just agree to disagree. If you’d like to learn more about either
DO or Caribbean medical school options, I have a video on each – link in the description
below. Thank you for watching. Seriously, it means a lot to me and please
leave any feedback or suggestions you may have down below. Much love to you all.

100 thoughts on “MD vs DO vs Caribbean for Medical School

  1. Hi Dr. Jubbal, I was wondering if you could make a video about the potential changes to the USMLE step exam scoring

  2. Hey Dr. Jubbal, i got accepted into med school and i am starting in september. Could you please do a video about your experience with dissecting a corpse for the first time? The dissection of a human body creeps me out but also excites me at the same time. Your video would be very useful, thanks!

  3. Woah an honest video regarding this topic. Its very refreshing to see. Hopefully this video will help lots of student make the right choice.

  4. To sum up this video
    Its just pure facts. You can deny it all you want. It won't change the facts.

  5. This all is true, but incomplete.
    Specialties it's better to be an AMERICAN MD. The School, DOs have a whole nother subject. Science is the same.
    If you're a badass you're a badass. I'm a DO. It's what I got into, at 39, had to answer for that 3.0 gpa engineering degree I got. I've got classmates that did Ortho and Gen Surg etc etc.
    My point is 1) don't go Caribbean while reapplying year after year for US MD. 2) If you're a badass with a checkered past…DO is far better. And…..if you apply…you go where you get in.

  6. So much to cover.
    You want to be a Cardiologist.
    Killing boards and big academic center IM residency can make up for Caribbean degree. But talk about rolling the dice. I know one. But we're talking 98% tile on Steps.

  7. Another aspect to consider that isn’t widely publicized is that the DO residency spots that were lost bc they couldn’t make acgme standards have largely be replaced by the AOA increasing residency class size of the programs that did make their merger. In in my schools sga and have met with the AOA president and he provided data that showed there are actually more raw residency spots in the former DO programs post merger due to class size increases.

  8. Don’t pick Carib over DO bc you think patients are gunna be skeptical of a DO degree. 99% of patients do not even know the difference between their physician and their NP/PA. This is such a silly argument to risk being 400k in debt with no job over.

  9. Make a video on international medicine! I’m an upcoming premed and my dream is to have my own private or practice in Germany!

  10. Hi, how do I get my spot for residency in USA if i finish my medical degree in Russia? Is it possible? An explaination would be lovely.

  11. Can you do a video about changing the USMLE from scored to pass/fail? And the impacts that would have on MD, DO and carribean students? Thanks!

  12. The use of a double snake logo to represent MD is laughable. The proper logo for MD and DO is the one you used to represent DO.

    Also the "big 4" has become the "big 5". What determines a Caribbean school's status is 50 state accreditation and title 4 funding, something AUA has had for a while. AUA also has direct partnership with a US MD school. That said, reference to the big 4 is an antiquated and outdated.

    Also something that is not mentioned in the video is that IMGs have to have longer postgraduate training before applying for full licensure, in many states. Many states allow a US MD to pull their full/independent license once they finish intern yr of residency (assuming they passed Step 3). Many states require IMGs to complete the standard 3 yrs of residency before pulling a full licence. Although not too significant, it hampers moonlighting abilities, during residency, for many IMGs.

  13. Great video! Don’t know why people can’t just look at the data and not get upset.. Dr. Jubbal could you compare or look at how students with an MBBS from the U.K. perform in the match?

  14. I have a question, can someone answer it? I'm currently halfway through my undergraduate degree and have decided that I'd like to go to medical school. The problem is I haven't taken pre-med courses beside the English and I need to raise my GPA. Would a Caribbean medical school be doeable at this point or should I just stick to going the Phd/PsyD route? I want to be either a psychologist or a psychiatrist…but I'd obviously need to go to medical school to become a psychiatrist. I feel like I'm too late in the game to have the pre-med qualifications for a medical school in the US

  15. I’m a proud D.O! And I matched orthopedics this past spring. I applied both the NRMP and AOA match. Took COMLEX and USMLE, and felt my curriculum prepared me well for both. LOTS of connections built along the way helped me bring me where I am today. Had 15 interviews total (average ortho is about 7-8). I wish you reported the amount of D.O’s that matched in the AOA match in addition to NRMP, which is always above 93%. Either way great video! Premeds please comment if you want advice on pursuing a competitive speciality going the D.O. route or if you wanna hear my story, (I chose my school so I can be debt free out of med school)

  16. to be honest I work in a hospital , which is the biggest health provider in NJ and level 1 trauma center and almost every resident here is from a Caribbean medical school.

  17. I would like to think that in the next ten years MD vs DO really won't be a thing anymore since we learn the same things and DO requirements and the number of DO schools are increasing. The only thing negative thing I will say is I think you forgot to take into account that the match rate you are using for DO schools is only taking into account NRMP currently and if you include the AOA programs the residency match rates are in the 90-95% range too. As a new first year at a DO school, I don't get why people get defensive about the DO vs MD thing. Should a DO degree hold less weight? No, probably not, we learn the same core things but the fact of the matter is, it does and that is a fact.That might change or it might not but if you get that hung up on it you might be in medicine for the wrong reasons but pretending like it doesn't exist is just naive and can hurt your career in the long run if you don't do extra things during medical school to make your residency application more competitive. It was a big sticking point for me on whether or not I matriculated this year or spent another year adding more research and other EC's to try and get into a MD program. I ultimately decided to matriculate now and have a pretty good idea that I want to go into EM, IM or neurology, all of which are very DO friendly specialties. If I was sure (lol) that I wanted to go into surgery I would have waited. As for COMLEX lots of the higher end DO schools even require you to take USMLE and COMLEX because they don't think that COMLEX alone is good enough for you to get into anything not primary care. Like you said, just because on average DO students are less competitive than MD students doesn't mean that you can't get into surgical residencies, you just need to realize that you need to do more and work harder than a MD student with the same board scores if you want to get in.

  18. Can you comment on the financial piece of choosing one route over another? Average indebtedness after graduation of MD vs DO vs Caribbean?

  19. I'm getting an MD in a community college in a developing country (where I was born). I feel like I have lower chances of getting to US Residency fellowship trainings, especially the elite institutions

  20. If you can't get into MD then still can't get into DO and still can't go Carribean then good luck on your Biology PhD.

  21. I COMPLETELY agree with what you are saying, but I do think that DO’s will have an easier time following a holistic approach. They are trained to do this AND learn to do this more than MD students do. MD’s will also have an easier time learning surgical approaches. This has to do with how they are taught.

    I’m not saying a MD can’t be great with holistic approaches or that a DO can’t be great at surgery, I’m just saying it would be EASIER for a DO to follow a holistic approach.

  22. Will doing any study games like Kahoot do me any good for tests? I used Kahoot for final exams in us History and I benefited from it, but I don’t know about English, my hardest subject.

  23. Having been through a long standing DO/MD residency and taking both boards your assessment of DO vs MD is pretty far off the mark in terms of selling points. The MDs going through were constantly having to learn things they didn't know about from the DOs. Attendings of both included. Never really went the other way in terms of big content.

  24. So I believe you're misinterpreting match data. If you look at the most recent match data and seperate out MD and DO students entering the match for the first time the match rate for MDs is 95% and the match rate for DOs was 97%. However, if you include those who are entering the match for their 2+ time then the percentages drop to about 90% MD and 85% DO. The NBME did not seperate the match data for DOs so if you only look at the graph it's easy to draw that conclusion.

  25. Here goes all the FRAGILE EGOs…🙄
    Whether you’re a MD DO DPM DC NP PA DDS DMD …. WE ALL CHOSE HEALTHCARE TO HELP PATIENTS IN TIMES OF THEIR NEEDS. Put your egos to the side because there will always be some one better than you and learn to work with one another or the sake of bettering humanity !!!

  26. Can you do a how to get into a competitive specialty video? I love plastics as most of my family is in the field and I've always love arts/aesthetics and working with my hands. I'm not applying til next cycle just to focus full time on getting a high MCAT to get into mid-upper tier MD schools that'll maximize chances for it…but I know for certain specialties you should also start getting research in those fields / getting pubs during med school is sometimes necessary. Idk if this is more for med students or premeds though..

  27. I’m in a Caribbean school now thats fully accredited across all 50 states.

    My first semester my class size was 300
    It’s now 156 as I’m in my last semester before step 1.

    About a 50% attrition rate…..

    We can get into the nitty gritty as to why this might be but none the less about 50% less students are in my class now.

    That being said I’m a 90+ student and I’m scheduled to score above a 250 on step 1 based on my Form scores and UWSA scores

    I’m the exception, not the rule

  28. What about Cuba’s medical school program? I’ve heard that you can get an education there for free and the government there expects nothing in return expect that graduates serve underprivileged communities.

  29. Can you please make a video how to become a doctor in the USA for
    international students? How to get into college and then medical school. What about ib diploma? In my opinion it would be really interesting and helpful.

  30. Just a suggestion! To increase fluidity in your videos, it’d be nice to not be told every minute how you have a video discussing that topic. Instead, just have the little flag that links it appear with an accompanying visual, but i don’t think anything else is necessary

  31. Great vid and very informative. You mentioned that MD's do treat holistically.. I am aware that DO's have about 200 additional hours in OMM holistic training, can you please go over the same training that MD's receive and the amount of hours? It would be greatly appreciated and help in my decision.

  32. I’m a DO student and don’t think you said anything technically “wrong” in this video, it was all factual. I do see a stigma against DO, however, like some people have commented most patients do not know the difference between NP/PA/RN etc, as long as they are being treated by a knowledgeable and great provider. I think one big point you missed is the fact that some people choose DO schools for their mission, if you want to go into primary/rural care or you’re interested in OMM within your chosen specialty, those could be deciding factors. As far as the residency merger I think nobody will really know what the effect is until it happens. Either way I would agree that MD or DO > Caribbean and I do hope the stigma with DO becomes less common, as our curriculum and training is very similar to MD.

  33. Gathering numbers and presenting can be done by an undergrad… You aren't presenting anything new. A true and innovative researcher should dig deeper and start from the gatekeeping system that produces more than 90% of white physicians every year, are you saying by implication that whites are the more competent race? don't address anything more than what the current system measures. When the inequality, racial bias and implicit racism is address then maybe your videos videos will actually have something of substance. Until then, you join the rest of your privileged in assuming and living the world through a narrow lense that assumes all start on the same step…

  34. Just commenting as a DO student to say that this video is absolutely correct. MD>DO if you can get in, if not DO is a great option (one I was happy to have available to me). Stay away from the Caribbean. MD>DO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Caribbean.

  35. Dr. Jubbal, you’re completely right! Facts are facts, you cannot just ignore them cause they hurt your feelings. I’m applying to med school (30+ MD programs) this cycle. Even with a 511 MCAT and 3.81 GPA, I’m still applying to a couple of DO programs as a backup. MD admissions are very competitive nowadays and I don’t wanna wait a year to apply again if i don’t get accepted in any of them. If I end up getting accepted only in DO programs, I’ll become a DO. Either as an MD or DO, i will work my butt off to be a great physician. But as you said, I am aware and acknowledge the limitations of becoming a DO. Thanks for providing objective info on your channel!

  36. This video is great and factually accurate but that rant at the end just grossed me out. There was no need to bring in that “snowflake” argument/vent/rant and I’m definitely unsubscribing now

  37. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the GPA diff between the two.
    DO schools take highest grade (in 2013 anyway). MD schools take all grades. No retaking a class for a better grade. That C will be averaged with your A if you retake Chem 101. Carribean schools just care about your ability to borrow money

  38. I like and appreciate the video and I agree with the information that was brought. Although, I will say that I find it unfortunate that the video categorized Med Schools in Puerto Rico as Carribean Medical Schools rather than US Medical School, which is what they are in actuality, since Puerto Rico is part of the US, and the application process is the same as in any other US state. In regards to how those schools do academically is another side of the story; there are many current factors in the island that make it more challenging for those students to perform like their colleagues in the states, although many PR Med Students do end up getting into top Medical residencies in the states, just like their DO and Caribbean counterparts. Regardless, I didn’t find it okay to label the MD Schools in Puerto Rico as non-US Medical Schools. Thank you for the video, I enjoyed it.

  39. Don't be afraid to tell facts. We should all accept the truth regardless how we feel about it becuase as a Physician, you should use the truth to maks better judgements. Those who feel better than others becuase of the degree they have are idiots. When I go to my doctor to check if my butthole has a tumor or not, the LAST thing i give a damn about is the 2 letters at the end of his name. I dont even care if you have a PA, or NP initials becuase if you can find the tumor up my butthole, then your better than the one who couldn't find it. This porblem is more prominent in america becuase americans want to look good as best as they can as opposed to going to the UK were they know that they are a team (there are a few rotten apples in the basket tho). If your reading this and think that your MD or DO is better than the other, then im sure your mom would have questioned if you were even smart enough to be a doctor. If your a PA or NP reading this and you feel pushed down because your not a doctor, then lift ya head up! The point of being in medicine is to heal the sick, NOT to be rolling up w a mercedez like a self centered douch bag who thinks he is the big shot just cuz he has a MD or DO in his name. Man to think that y'all spent over a decade of schooling and still be dumb thinking ur better than someone else is just stupid.
    P.S even if your a CNA, then props to you for LITERALLY picking up after everyones crap. Blessed day y'all 😉

  40. I was a loud and outspoken critic of you from the M.D. vs D.O. video for the problematic wording. But this video is fair and I appreciate that as a 4th year D.O. student. Thank you!

    Pre-meds the D.O. overall score difference was an average. The GPA of my class is just as high as you'll find with other M.D. programs in Ohio, it's also not easy to get in. Do your research on individual schools! Don't be afraid to apply to both as I did! 🙂 choosing D.O. route after the fact

  41. I’m a DO medicine resident in an MD residency. All I can say is kids, listen to this video. I’ve had a bunch of premed scribes, undergrads ask which school they should go to and my first question to them is, “Well, it depends on what you want to do.” And most of them say cardiothoracic surgery, neurosurgery, derm, yada yada. I encourage them to go to US MD schools because facts.

    Also, the whole “holistic” thing is spot on. It’s as if a NP saying “well we LISTEN to our patients.”

    Commence triggering…

  42. Great, factual video! I’m a 1st yr med student at an osteopathic school and agree that you can’t negate facts just bc you don’t like them! As much as I wish DOs wouldn’t be looked down on from others, unfortunately it takes time to reverse decades of that mentality! Although I didn’t love the wording in the prev video (there was nothing technically wrong with it) this one came across more helpful!

    Also, you don’t have to be a DO to have a holistic approach to health, I think it’s just emphasized more at a DO school.. I’ve also had MD doctors consider all aspects of my health in order to best treat me so I think it’s more on the individual! Wish there wasn’t such lingering animosity and more collaboration between the two degrees, we all have the same goal!

  43. Disclaimer: I am a DO student.
    Everything here is accurate, if you want to maximize your chances for residencies, go US MD (if you can). With that said, I think the point made about how going to the Caribbean would eliminate the DO stigma (which is true) doesn't speak specifically to the stigma of being a foreign grad. Matching as a US DO is (as it was said in the video) much easier than as a Caribbean grad, I could go onto argue why its better not to go to the Caribbean at all, but thats another topic. In my experience speaking with and working with practicing DO's, the stigma is not something that really follows you beyond residency/fellowship (from my experience / what I have seen). Yes, sometimes you will have to explain to patients what a DO is, but this seems to be rare (in my experience) once you are a practicing physician. The stigma against Caribbean students is bad, just look at top residency programs, you are more likely to find a DO there vs a Caribbean grad, and this doesn't just apply to top programs, but entire specialties. Please do your research before even considering going to the Caribbean, it does work out for some people, but at some/many schools down there, their is up to a 50% chance you won't graduate, and on top of that a 50% chance you won't match and will be stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt (Caribbean school are expensive).

  44. Jubbal,

    Thanks for your videos and appreciate your time. I have serious question. I was recently accepted into a pre-med program through this Caribbean medical school called "Saint James School of Medicine." It's a 92 credit hour program and once you complete you can apply to their MD program. How do you feel about that? Is it a good route to take considering i wouldn't graduate with the traditional US Medical school debt either. I want to be a surgeon so bad and have a passion to become a doctor. Thanks man God bless you and much love. Looking forward to hearing back from you,

  45. A few things…I don’t blame PDs for not trusting COMLEX. It was a joke. Riddled with typos and questions that just didn’t make any sense or test anything useful. They should just get rid of it. The other point is that we shouldn’t be fighting amongst each other about MD vs. DO vs. Carib MD when NPs with online degrees can walk around calling themselves Doctor with no real specialized training in the clinical practice of medicine, and these people are stealing our jobs. PAs are a different story. At least they have a medically based degree.

  46. I would say osteopaths have it harder though getting through school because they have to do more total classes than most (if not all) allopathic medical schools. The ratio is for every 3-4 classes you would have a semester in MD school you have 5-6 in osteopathic school. Work harder and get treated like crap during your residency…guess that's why I've never met a DO who did not impress me in some way versus the dozens of MDs I have met who I would not want treating me.

  47. DO here and I 100% agree with every word you said. You said it wisely and fairly just stating facts 🙂 Knowing all the info. that you said before applying to DO schools, I made my informed decision to apply because I didn't want to wast a year or two doing research/retake my MCAT. I had a GPA of 3.98 and MCAT score of 504. I wanted to start Med school right after undergrad and thought that I'll accept the disadvantage. Applying to residency now and with good USMLE score, I think I have a good shot at average to strong programs. Definitely there are some programs that don't take DOs no matter what, however to me and my specialty of choice I don't think it is a big deal. To others who want to go to super competitive specialties at competitive programs, they will have a big disadvantage as DOs. However, your PERSONAL efforts as a physician will make the difference after that. I know a lot of FMG who are among the top docs in the country !! Do your best and be a good doc. as an MD or a DO or a Carb grad. Patients want someone to take care of them and make them feel better and won't care much about your impressive USMLE or MCAT score.

  48. I wanted to clarify one thing, Puerto Rican and USVI medical schools are allopathic US Schools, hence the political status of the islands being a part of the US as unincorporated territories, they are certified by all US standards (meaning USMLE in your second year etc.). The island is in the Caribbean, but by no means they are easier to get into, acceptance rates are about the same, and also you are not an IMG when you graduate from the schools of PR and all other US territories (USVI, American Samoa etc.) you are treated as any other US med school graduate.

  49. Heres the truth: Many hospitals do not want DO. They are historically MD Teaching hospitals. The best hospitals. This should be one of the main reasons you choose MD US or Caribbean VS DO. Also, who wants to have a tougher time around the world and in the US explaining what a DO does, is, and why its the same as an MD? Yea right. At the end of the day, all you see is MD or DO, not what school someone came from. The end. Step scores is king.

  50. Please note that US MD schools are not the only LCME accredited schools. Canadian ones are considered equivalent and therefore not considered IMGs. A major oversight in the video.

  51. Dr. Jubbal

    How do European-trained physicians compare to american doctors? This falls outside of the 3 main paths to practicing in the US.

    I am an American beginning medical school in Ireland next week and I am curious to know if you have any experience working with doctors who trained in europe.

  52. Love the fact that you double down with facts and don't like to take anything back due to hurt feelings. Integrity at its finest, good work !

  53. The history of DOs is quite interesting. The whole California thing about trying to eliminate DO schools back in the day, with the push back and eventual legal victory to allow DOs back into the state is quite a read. Not many people know that UC Irvine school of medicine used to be a DO school. I think that DOs have come a long way since the 1950s where they weren’t able to practice in many states. I think however that this video is refreshingly honest. I will say though that are way better off going DO then Carib in every circumstance.

  54. D.O. here (trained at California academic ACGME programs). Great job. I agree with the pretty much the everything in the video, with one caveat. Regarding the DO stigma, especially when considering Caribbean MD vs DO, I don't think most people understand how much more difficult the Caribbean route is. From what my Caribbean grad colleagues that went to the big 4 there tell me, Caribbean med school students have to pass an in house pre-screening test before the school would even let you sign up for the USMLE. Also, in addition to the horrible attrition rate mentioned, it is not uncommon for students there to be held back a semester (or two) for failing a few classes or not passing that screening test (meaning more tuition $$$). Of the ones that do pass, they have to obtain considerably higher USMLE scores and apply to way more residency programs (sometimes 100+ programs for IM and FM, still only getting 10 interviews with above average USMLE scores!) to get consideration for comparable residency programs, even when compared to osteopathic med students. The FMG/IMG stigma is much, much, much stronger than DO stigma, and I would take some serious caution before even considering the Caribbean route (if at all). My Caribbean MD colleagues are fantastic (just like my US MD and DO colleagues), but they went through hell to get where they are and at considerable risk given the odds. So, when it comes to ease of matching/placing into residency, MD > DO >>> Caribbean. Once in residency and especially after training is complete, we're all colleagues, regardless of route.

  55. I can't find this online, but I can't move for med school. Its just me and a non working dependant. Can I just apply to one school? And how can I improve my chances of getting in?

  56. I don't care where you went to school or what letters are behind your name. As someone who works in EMS, I would like to see all med students have to do a few shifts on a 911 ambulance as part of the emergency medicine rotation.

  57. I'm a current DO student, and everything in this video is accurate. I was accepted into MD school, but chose the DO route for personal reasons with the full awareness that it would make my path more difficult. I would not recommend that choice to the vast majority of students if they had the option, barring pretty specific circumstances like I had. That said, I knew going in that choosing to go to a DO school would mean that I would have to set myself apart from day 1 in order to achieve the things I want to achieve, and I'm good with that. It's kept me motivated, I still feel incredibly lucky that I get to be a doctor in the future, and I'm thankful that my DO school allowed me the opportunity I needed to attend to the personal reasons that I chose it over MD school. To my fellow DO students: let's keep up the hard work so this becomes less of an issue for the people who come after us. 🙂

  58. US MD >> US DO >>> Caribbean MD (Avoid Caribbean if possible; more than half of my classmates kicked/failed out)
    USMLE >> COMLEX (COMPLEX is a joke)

    I graduated from a Caribbean MD school and finished residency; 95% of my colleagues are DOs and their COMPLEX is a joke; ex easy and its only 1-day exam for COMPLEX

    Med School Insiders does give accurate information. Keep up the good work.

  59. Thirteen minutes of plugging your own channel and your own videos. I understand that you need those for “supplement” or “context” but honestly it’s been happening more and more and it’s a little bit tiring tbh and makes me question some motivations. Thanks for understanding.

  60. "your dogs friends owners sister", LOL calling out people who cite anecdotal evidence and statistical anomalies left and right.

  61. If you go MD (minus foreign MD), you put in more hard work upfront (GPA and MCAT).

    If you go DO, there is less hard work upfront, you have to really push yourself and stand out in medical school to avoid many doors from being shut off to you.

  62. For those MD acceptance data it's also including inherent bias on the part of the school. I'm 39 and in an SMP with a DO school. The MD school based in this same town hasn't admitted anyone close to my age in as far as their stats show. Hell, I'm over ten years older than the oldest student they accepted. A minor consideration, of course, but it is just another of the many factors that can skew those averages. Keep up the good work.

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