Conversion Therapy | Gender Clinics | Kids off Nauru | Royal Commission – EP6 – The Truth of It

G’day I’m Martyn and on today’s episode
of The Truth of It, we are talking the banking Royal Commission, conversion
therapy, the rise and rise of gender clinics, Generation Z and religious
belief and kids off Nauru. Welcome to The Truth of It – ACL’s
weekly newscast on politics and current events to cut through the fake news and
bring you what it says on the tin which is the truth of it and today I’m
going to lead with this story just quickly the banking royal commission the
final review recommends charges against three financial institutions – that’s
criminal charges and recommends investigations into a further 15. Look,
the summary is this – it’s long, it’s complicated, its pages and pages, it took
a long time to do, it was done by a former High Court Chief Justice Kenneth
Hayne. Lots of charges, lots of recommendations, lots of changes to be
put through off the back of lots and lots of misconduct. I’m only gonna say
the obvious here I think. The obvious is this so many recommendations for changes
in the law because people have done the wrong thing but regulations can only go
so far laws have their limits it’s not possible to draft an ethical code or a
regulatory instrument that covers every possible form of misconduct people are
too smart lawyers are too smart human behavior is not so robotic that it can
be fully regulated by rules and regulations you know the only way really
to guard against the vices of self-interest and greed is good
character and virtue you see people need to actually desire in their heart from
within to do good to do right and to do the right thing even if it costs them
something or even if it deprives them of an opportunity that’s about character
people need to have a conscience that’s developed in such a way that if they
don’t achieve that or if they fall foul of that it pains them their conscience
is enlivened and sharpened that is the hue
condition that law is real laws are real but laws a weak because of the fact that
we are human and we are capable of doing what we can do and morality is not the
same as law Jesus actually made this point it slightly different context but
it’s instructive in the Sermon on the Mount you know he pointed out that
there’s those who are self-righteous who keep the letter of the law they don’t
commit adultery they don’t murder anyone and yet he’s able to say to them
although you don’t disobey the law although you’re self-righteous
lawkeepers you actually break the law you actually do wrong you actually are
still culpable of doing moral wrongs you still hate each other
you still commit lust for example you not only do wrong even though you keep
the law but you do wrongs that affect other people and he says if your hearts
were right if you desired to be good and do good and if your consciences were
effective you wouldn’t just desire the letter of the law you would desire the
spirit for the law – and what is the spirit of the law do you know in the
ultimate sense it is the heart of God from whom the law came it is that if we
knew him you know we would desire his character we were desire his will we
will want to do that which was moral which cannot be found in codified law it
can only be found in a person a personality and a moral God and the
truth is where there’s no knowledge of God there’s no law good enough to
replace God so we find ourselves stuck in a difficult situation time and again
and the banking Royal Commission is the latest example you know you over
regulate the industry and what’s going to happen the economy will suffer they
won’t be able to do things because we won’t let them off the leash because we
don’t trust them and so over-regulation is bad but you
know what there comes a time when it’s the only option because we simply don’t
trust people to govern themselves to do the right thing this is a great
principle of society but you know in saying that it would be wrong of us to
simply leave this in the hands of society we’re very well pre calibrated
to point the finger and say it’s their fault but you
know if the lesson here is that character matters then that’s a lesson
for you and me that means that your character and my character matters so
let’s not just look at the banking Royal Commission and think it’s a lesson about
society it is but if it’s a lesson about society then it’s a lesson for us
character matters I remember once I was having a great vent about a whole bunch
of people who I had found out in quick succession had great moral problems and
I was I was venting about and saying who-who is there out there that’s that’s
good anymore and I remember a wise person who I was with actually got a bit
frustrated with me and they got right up in my face and they said listen you need
to stop worrying about everybody else and start worrying about yourself and
that was when I was very young and I have never ever forgotten it there are
things we can’t fix but all of us all of us can by God’s grace fix ourselves close getting there look next up on the
agenda is LGBT conversion therapy this is a really big one the day was Sunday
March the 3rd it was Mel Burns midsummer pride march premiere daniel andrews
attended as he is i want to do and he announced that his government was going
to outlaw LGBT conversion therapy and you know the outrage almost it was
pretty high with this he made some pretty strident quotes he said this for
example he said that he said that conversion therapies it is an evil
practice a most personal form of torture a cruel practice that perpetuates the
idea that LGBT people are in some way broken and then he said bigoted quackery
here’s what he called it and he said we’ll drag these practices out of the
Dark Ages and into the brightest of lights we’ll put an end to the suffering
and help survivors to heal here in Victoria not only are you good enough
but you’re worth celebrating well the first question that I have what is LGBT
conversion therapy their term not ours and despite all of that conviction in
that outrage it was never defined we haven’t been
told what it means are they referring to something involved
Herry are they were serving something coercive something abusive is this all
about those dark tales we hear of gay boot camps anti-gay boot camps or or
electric shock therapy or things like this I mean if it is that of course
we’ve got nothing to worry about because who supports that that’s not part of any
major faith community in Australia that’s not happening in 2018 and so you
say well hang on if it’s not really happening if it’s not happening
today and it’s not a mainstream issue or even a fringe issue what’s the problem
what’s the outrage directed out why the hyperbole well simply that’s not what
they mean let me quote to you some things first the Karen Cusack the
Victorian health complaints commissioner what did she say well she said
conversion therapy appears in contemporary forms as counselling
psychology support groups and prayer yeah prayer so
prayer is capable of being conversion therapy or if you look at the former
Australian Labor Party’s national platform policy platform which was
changed off the back of an ACL campaign at the end of last year but that
platform said this when a defined LGBTQ conversion therapy it started by
targeting mere claims that’s at the level of speech that a person’s sexual
orientation or gender identity can change they said that that’s where it
begins and then went on as you keep breathing and it specifically singled
out and targeted are those engaged in religious conduct religious activities
and then it ran it out and finished by saying that parents perpetuate
perpetuating such notions in the family home will be considered domestic and
psychological abusers domestic abusers really but worse you know there’s a
report called preventing harm promoting justice responding to LGBT conversion
therapy in Australia it’s put out by the human rights Law Center in Latrobe
University very influential bodies particularly in Victorian policy making
we suspect the policy drafting will be heavily influenced by this that report
goes further than any of those two sources I just mentioned that report
actually talks about the sidious practice of churches which is to
welcome but not affirm or to use phrases like love the sinner but hate the sin
now I’m not sure where else there is to go from there
aside from full affirmation of that which the church says is wrong
can we call out sin and this isn’t just a homosexual question this is sin this
is things that the church holds dear you know it too cries those this report does
– cries the fact that church communities are by quote saturated with a
heterosexual sexual ideology and then if people fall outside of the sexual
ideology of the church that is one man for one woman married for life then the
solution one of the solutions is to pray for them and offer them counselling this
goes into the very core and guts of the church and if you read that report it
gets worse the recommendations go as far as to say that parents who believe this
you know the circumstances under which they should be reported to the relevant
child protective authorities talks about school chaplains who are not allowed to
question or to refer anybody who’s struggling with these issues it goes on
what options remain for the Christian family what options remain for the
church for the pastor for the Christian counsel like the Christian professional
or just the Christian in these issues you know someone asks for prayer at
concerning an issue that they might have let’s say it is unwanted same-sex
attraction a pastor a friend a therapist prayer is natural to the Christian that
is a natural response to people who ask for help is that legal
a therapist or professional counsels someone let’s say it’s a child who says
that they’ve got gender dysphoria or some feelings that look that way and
counsels them in a way that affirms or even implicitly affirms their biology is
that legal what about a totally voluntary support group by ex-gays for X
gays there’s plenty of them out there can they even decide that that’s what
they want to do a parent whose child has been to school
and they’ve been served up the explore experiment and discover mantra of safe
school style programs and that is the mantra I’ve read some of these materials
and you know they’ve told they’ve gone to spoken to a school counselor about
these issues and been told that their feelings might be evidence of
homosexuality or transgenderism what option to the parents have can dad
discourage ten-year-old Harry from wearing a dress and using the girls
toilets for a little while yet to see how it all pans out or is that gender
conversion because he’s denying how Harry feels can mom explain to a 15 year
old Sarah that because all of her besties are girls and an activist came
in and talked about sexual identities etc that you know it might not be a good
idea to identify as a lesbian or experiment at this stage of her life you
know it seems that gender conversion and sexual orientation conversion are
absolutely fine if done by one group but a reprehensible offense if done by
others but what about this can a pastor read Romans one can I pass the named sin
can a pastor preach the reality of being a new creation in Christ change enabled
by the Holy Spirit to teach us to renounce ungodliness and train us
towards righteousness as Titus 2:10 says I mean forget the pastor can any of us
hold these truths / club dear and proclaim them publicly and affirm them
even in our personal relationships is the gospel even legal you know I can’t
say firmly enough this is really serious I mean we’re actually at the point now
where this is now on paper this really is being contemplated and you know I’ve
often said in the last 12 months and occasionally just sort of doubted myself
when I’ve said it because I’ve thought gosh that’s pretty full on maybe I am
getting influenced by the environment that I mean but you know when I see
things like this I think maybe I have been right because I’ve said to a number
of people I’ve said you know the church will wake up the church will wake up the
whole church the Christian community will one day realize just how full-on
this is and just how committed and how serious the ideology
years behind this and it will be when they lose their children it will be when
someone knocks at the door and the state takes their kids away now that day is
getting closer if this sort of thing continues in fact that is the only
logical outcome of this kind of mindset read the report for yourself
that I mentioned look it up where is it preventing harm promoting justice
responding to LGBT conversion therapy in Australia and see if that’s not true
so you know what I want to do is this I’ll actually read just the last section
of the blog that I wrote yesterday to really try and nail what’s going on here
ideologically and in terms of a Christian view I said this I said so
whilst it’s still legal let me get to the core of this so-called bigoted
quackery as Daniel Andrews called it there is only one kind of conversion and
that is conversion to Christ and that conversion is real it’s a miracle I know
because I have been converted not by myself as if I can boast but by the
grace of God alone not from homosexuality but from sin to salvation
from darkness to light from death to life from self to Christ that will
forever remain that idea offensive to our culture Andrews decries the notion
that anyone is broken proclaiming that here in Victoria not only not only are
you good enough you’re worth celebrating and therein lies the radical difference
between our gospel the gospel of Jesus Christ and our culture one says peace
lies within the solution itself happiness is the identity fulfillment is
self-expression Who I am is all I need but the other hears the voice of Jesus
tear through our pride he says what comes out of the person is what defiles
him for from within out of the heart of man come evil thoughts sexual immorality
theft murder adultery coveting wickedness deceit sensuality and the
slander pride foolishness all these evil things come from within and they defile
a person see geez says selfies enslavement on liberty
pursuit of self is guilt not peace well as I encountered God you know that was
the revelation that he had he realized that he hadn’t one atom of self-worth to
hold up as credit before the one of whom the angels were singing holy holy holy
the gospel proclaims seen Christ and salvation not to leave us in the
hopeless wallowing of self-love and narcissism but to save us from ourselves
and lead us into something otherworldly and sublime scripture calls it changed
from one degree of glory to another into the image of Christ in the verse before
the tragedy of our times is that we’ve been taught to double down triple down
quadruple down on self-love and the pursuit of our identity and we are
raising the most depressed and anxious generation that our culture has ever
seen because that is to turn one’s face away from the giver of true peace that
is to turn one’s face away from the author of life and the answer that our
guilty self is really screaming out for the cross says repent Christ who is
alive says I will make you new to quote the Apostle Paul if anyone is in Christ
he is a new creation behold the old has passed away behold
all things have become new and all these things come from God who reconciled us
to himself that is conversion that is peace it’s peace with God and you know
what it can’t be stopped that is above your jurisdiction mr. premier it’ll
continue let me just say before I close this topic off in this I think is a
warning to us I I think a warning to parents I’m not a parent myself I’ve got
a lot of my family who are parents this kind of thing has been subtly taught to
children including me when I was a child for the last 30 odd years the worth of
the self the specialness of the identity the validity of that which lies within
these buzzwords have been creeping into the church for a little while now
identities been the latest for about five years this is a mistake it really
is because that kind of thinking is what lies at the root of an edifice of real
corruption and it is contrary to what the Scriptures have always told us it’s
contrary to the words of Jesus its contra to the world of world of words of
Paul and you know I think Paul would actually go as far as to call it the lie
which stands in opposition to the truth because the truth is worship and serve
creator the lie is serve worship the creature that which lies within and I
think that all of these are just check points along the progression between
those two and we need to be turned out of self to be saved from self and you
know the lesson for all of us is to stop being cowed and trying to take the path
of least resistance on these things this is now turning into the gospel itself
this is now turning into that which Jesus came to die for we need to say it
we need to say it boldly and we need to not apologize whatever the cost may God
give us strength to do that well on a related note we moved to
gender clinics the rise and rise and this really feeds off of what I just
said here’s a thought right what impact is there from all of this gender bending
stuff on kids what what is the result of having this throughout the schools
throughout the entertainment everywhere just how dangerous is it to tell a child
to explore discover an experiment when it comes to sexual behaviors and gender
identities for that’s what they do what you know some Freedom of Information
requests were put into major gender clinics across Australia which have
something instructive to say about this the clinics that they picked were for
example the lady salento Children’s Hospital gender clinic and statewide
service in Queensland Children’s Hospital Westmead gender clinic in
Sydney Royal Children’s Hospital gender service in Melbourne and Perth
Children’s Hospital gender diversity service in Perth so pretty good
cross-section of the major ones and here’s the results during the number of
children seeking treatment at those gender services in the last four years
is increased by 400% that’s a four-fold increase that’s huge
huge the idea has a consequence the confusion so on as such a
developmentally significant RH causes a particular outcome and here’s some
evidence for fold increase but you know it gets worse if you actually just
confine it to the number of kids not receiving treatment in all forms but if
you just take that component that are receiving hormone therapy so that is the
precursor to irreversible surgery this is really getting serious now
hormone therapy for children cross-sex hormones that number over four years the
number of children receiving that treatment is increased by 1000%
and I don’t mean there was one child four years ago and there’s 10 kids now
the number is hundreds and hundreds this is a tragedy
you know it’s very dark IRA never never forget when what hi I came to Australia
he was one of the first gender reassignment patients and was very early
once in the 1950s and you know Walt transitioned to become a woman and after
a few years regretted it and he transitioned back you can’t really fully
but he was always a man and so it’s you know he can then become a man again but
he’s obviously I had irreversible surgery and so forth and Walt now runs a
counseling ministry where he travels around to thousands and thousands of
people who have what he calls transgender regret and you know the
suicide rates amongst this group it’s just harrowing many of them many of
them died but you know those who don’t he said he sits down with them and he
says he’s yet to find someone who couldn’t tell him what was the cause of
their gender dysphoria in the first place he says this is a group of people
and he says he thinks that many between a three and a 15 year window experience
this regret he said a full 50 percent are able to identify the cause as child
sexual abuse and he says of the remainder most of them have some kind of
comorbidity but there’s also those who simply were affirmed down this pathway
with nobody getting them the way to stop it you can look at Kerry a woman in her
early 20s on YouTube she put a video up and she’s number twenty something year
old woman with a five o’clock shadow a broken voice and a scarred chest all
because I couldn’t face the reality that I’m a woman and she’s living with
irreversible damage this is dark and you know it all starts with an idea be who
you are celebrate yourself and the the the
expression of the identity without limits and without barriers and do not
allow external forces to convert you away from that pathway of expression
remember we talked about conversion therapy before that’s what it’s really
all about but you see that that idea which I warned us
is this dangerous is a dark business the gospel of self is a gospel of slavery of
darkness and it does actually literally lead to death it’s very serious indeed
gender clinics a dark business and now we’re not the boy who cried wolf this
really is a very serious thing I think we should pray regularly for the kids
who are currently in this in this circumstance and their families many are
actually confused many are actually bewildered many are actually hurting
gender dysphoria is a real sensation and I’m sure it’s not nice and I hear that
it’s not nice from those who’ve experienced it so we should pray for
them we really should but also pray that something will be done to stem the tide
on this alright when we turn to generation Z generation Z teenagers that
is and their worldview this is the group of course that were not captured in the
most recent census study because they’re teenagers they’re too young but there’s
a research project being carried out jointly by anu deacon and Monash
researchers and that has posted some preliminary findings it’s got a few
years to run yet but they’ve got some preliminary survey results and data and
the results are at first confusing but I think that there’s a method in the
madness and I’m going to give my thoughts firstly a stat 85% of teenagers
today have a favorable attitude to Christians which is actually the the
highest favorability of any other faiths Muslims though who were the lowest
favorability are still at 74% so they have a favorable view of Muslims 74% of
the time roughly three-quarters and then everybody else the other major faiths
lies somewhere between the 74 and the 85 and so here’s a generation that has a
favorable disposition when asked just about religion at the surface level and
yet 50% half thought that people with strong religious beliefs were too
intolerant strong religious beliefs were too intolerant 44% thought that religion
created more problems than it solves 33% thought that religion should have no
place in parliament or ceremonies official ceremonies and a third this is
quite remarkable a third thought that communities should be able to prevent
the construction of mosques and temples if they didn’t want them and yet 91
percent the whole lot of negative there and yet they have a favorable view of
religion in general and still 91 percent also said that many faiths made
Australia better that is the fact that there’s a multi multi pluralistic
environment in Australia and 90 percent said that all religious groups should be
free to practice their religion what do we make of that I think I can make
something of it I think the summary is this it’s a
generation that at the moment in their teenage years tolerates religion so long
as it’s not too full on so long as it hasn’t developed into dogma so long as
it’s not too deep if you identify as a Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim and you
wear a cross around your neck or something on your head or whatever fine
go for your life practice your religion no problem we think that’s great oh look
it’s diversity but you know what if you a Christian and you go to Parliament and
you still be a Christian all problem if you have strong religious beliefs as
that’s that said oh you’re too intolerant half said that or if you’re a
Muslim and you want to build a mosque in my local community to actually practice
your faith well now why should every right to stop that and so here you have
oh yes on the face of it to identify as to sort of virtue signal religion to
have it on the outside and externality and identify that way is fine but if you
actually want to do anything about it if you want to be a fundamentalist or
something like that then you’ve got a big problem but you know out of that
flows another set of figures and here’s a massive statistic sixty-seven percent
that is more than two-thirds believe in God or a god-like being or force of some
kind like a higher power that’s a big number and yet only 50 and yet full 52
percent more than half don’t identify with any religion at all so have this
massive number who have belief in the spiritual I believe in God
but very few are actually religious in the traditional sense and I think
there’s a summary to that fact as well the summary is that it’s the I’m
spiritual but not religious generation and probably these stats confirm what
I’ve been reading more and more over the last few years which is that a hard
secular society is probably behind us it probably isn’t the case anymore that the
whole idea of no God only signs only the rational is left we’re past that we’re
in a post secular not just a post Christian world because of course that
world couldn’t provide meaning oh they tell you God wasn’t real a man is the
measure of all things and everything is obtainable we’re rational intellect what
does it mean blank and so you know the post secular world is a world in which
the spiritual is returning and I think that that’s seen in these stats for such
young people to be so spiritually inclined and open but not to like
religion at all in any serious way except insofar as it manifests some kind
of spirituality but isn’t to full-on it’s seen here but you know I think that
the desire is for a spiritual force that gives license not limits because limits
are intolerant and you know there are many people out there who are saying
look this is actually the resurrection of a neo-pagan spirituality which talks
essentially about that which is spiritual which lies within which is
within the world which is worshipped by the expression of the self it’s
interesting if you’ve been listening to the whole episode you’ll see that that
theme has really run through a lot of the things that I’ve said and if that is
now being spiritual eyes which I firmly believe it is I’m not just saying these
a thing as I’ve seen much evidence of this on every hand and if to worship is
to self express self ideation and that which is spiritual is to be plumbed
within the depths of human expression and identity that’s very dangerous very
dangerous indeed and very very destructive and actually potentially
quite totalitarian when it comes out in laws like conversion
herpy but here’s the thing that’s a similar kind of spirituality that
existed although more institutionalized and formalized in the ancient world when
the gospel exploded now I’m not saying that that exploit the gospel explosion
was because of the culture it certainly wasn’t it was because of the holy spirit
and it always is but whether or not an openness to the spiritual it’s going to
be a good thing for the evangelization of another generation in the future
remains to be seen perhaps that is in fact where this will lead but certainly
for the meantime some very dangerous tendencies coming out of generations ed
and interesting that these stats confirm what many Christian thinkers are saying final topic kids off Naru
now this has been something that’s really dominated the headlines in recent
weeks that is that the final four children are actually been sent to am
being sent to America so there’s no children on Nauru anymore the prime
minister Scott Morrison said we’ve got all the children labor put in detention
centers out and we have shut down all the detention centers labor opened
including Christmas Island it’s a partisan statement I know but the spirit
of that statement is actually true and there’s you know some important facts
which I think I can contribute to this area whilst being cautious at the same
time I’ve taken an interest in this since I became managing director at ACL
in February last year and pursued a lot of information about the circumstances
prevailing and here’s some things first of all asylum seekers on Madison Nauru
have never been without options there are several and I’ll start with the that
I’ll go an order of attractiveness the first one is return to their home
country now that’s not ideal for most who are as assessed as genuine refugees
so that’s that’s something that’s not open to everyone but it’s an option you
don’t have to stay in detention if you’re not a genuine refugee you can go
back or anyone can go back actually if it becomes safe you can go back but
further there’s the option to resettle with their families bring their families
as well in puppy and in many cases in the ruh as well and
they will receive support services to help them to find housing and find work
and get set up with life in a place that is peaceful in a place where it is
possible to be successful and to live comfortably that is an option that’s
open and there’s be taken up by many another one is to put their hand up for
assessment to go to the United States of America which is a really very
attractive option which is available to many and has been taken up by many and
remains available to many who are still in detention
but 72 I think it was actually refused this option which is confusing because
if somebody is is in a desperate circumstance you would take up such an
offer of a first-world country to live in that is peaceful and free and all the
rest of it but they would they rejected it because of course they want to come
to Australia but it means that they’re willing to wait to see if that can
happen or if they’re unable to go to the USA there’s usually been a third country
that they’ve been able to go to and that was Cambodia for a time I’m not sure
where the cambodian thing is out at the moment but again it’s safe it’s free and
they can have a good life there especially with the support services
being offered which actually means that if somebody wasn’t able to go to the US
they’ve always got something to do something they can do but also there’s
options for one thing secondly they’re not in torturous conditions I’ve
satisfied myself of that there’s pictures often of children behind wire
fences and saying you know kids in detention that’s very misleading they’re
not behind why attempt offenses and they’re not in detention they are living
free in community on PNG in PNG or Nauru I know in particular you’ve got people
who have integrated into the community who have bought local businesses who
have children some have got married some have been authorized to go on holiday to
Fiji and things like this they’re living free life they’re getting educated there
and all the rest of it they’re not in detention they’re not behind wire let’s
get that straight in fact that’s been the case for some
time I’ve also I do have I’m a late comer to this though in the early days
it may well have been that there was madness and that conditions were not
great but they were very challenging times and it’s it’s it’s in the past
I’ve not been there challenging times because of the overcrowding and all the
madness that was going on with the people flowing in and all the rest of it
but what about medical care a lot of money is invested in medically here
again I’ve questioned and I found out information about this I can’t share it
all but the fact is the Medicare medical care of high quality is available and on
standby all the time I am for example aware that there’s many children who
have been taken off Nauru by private jet at a cost of hundreds of thousands of
dollars with their families because they haven’t even for a few days for example
maybe their blood glucose has dropped a bit for that reason whole family gets
brought to Australia and as soon as they land lawyers lodge injunctions to stop
them ever going back and they never do and lots of families have come to
Australia by coordinating that kind of activity and the medical care has always
been given and been given quickly and I’ve also spoken to people who are aware
of now ruined children now ruined children who have not gotten medical
care quickly enough from countries like Australia recently and have therefore
gone blind from complications and others horrible things have happened to them
and meanwhile private jets are ferrying in and out for the refugees now I’m not
denying anybody good medical care I’m just saying that medical care is well
funded and it exists now there’s that but also we need to remember 50,000
people arrived on 800 boats it’s big at least 1,200 died at sea they were 220
children offshore in 1992 and 1,200 turn and trained children offshore and 90
1992 in on the Australian mainland that figure is now 0:19 detention centres
have been closed that’s all progress that’s all
humanitarian progress there’s about a thousand silent seekers currently
remaining on Manus in Nauru with the ability
is dwindling and its twin dling at a reasonable rate as well it’s steady but
it’s not very very slow it’s actually quite quite a pace the problem is this I
understand it entirely they have an unmet expectation of coming to Australia
those who’ve been waiting and waiting and waiting in Hope have been waiting
for five years or so I understand that it’s not nice it’s not an ideal
circumstance I can understand the pain I can
understand the fact that it is frustrating and I can understand the
fact that it becomes hopeless because they want to come here and they’re not
here that’s the unmet expectations of them
are genuine refugees I will say that so I’m not saying they should go back many
of them are refers to genuine refugees and they want to come here
look that’s where things are and that’s where I think I feel people don’t know a
lot of those facts but related to this is the Phelps Bill Karen Phelps wants to
introduce this bill which you will have seen in the press and there’s much
debate in it or they just got blocked at the end of last year she wants to
introduce a bill in a couple of weeks in or next week in Parliament that says
that these people any of these 1000 asylum seekers can come to Australia on
the say-so of two doctors if the doctors sign off and say that yes
they have medical concerns and the treatment being provided them is
inadequate the Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton will have 24 hours to
approve that his only able to say no if he has legitimate national security
concerns and if he does say no it then gets referred to a panel a committee
which has to review it again within 24 hours so he can’t just say no all the
time he’s got to be you know honest to say okay off receive medical expert
opinion that’s all I’ve got and this is deadlocked in the lower house it’s
passed the Senate but in the lower house has got 74 votes at 4:00 and 74 votes
against and Cathy McGowan the independent from end I is the one with
whomever she sides it will pass or not pass and if the bill passes it will be a
vote of no confidence in the government because this is a core piece of
government policy and if the bill doesn’t pass the lower house there’ll be
a snap election but let’s talk about the problem of this bill for a second and
because there are problems you know a CEO actually briefed the government and
said that these that the 1,000 asylum seekers still on Manus on Nauru would
come to Australia within weeks of the bill passing and you say well how is
that possible well you know what I don’t want to cast aspersions against people
but I will tell you the truth there are people out there with medical degrees
for practicing medicine who will sign off on bringing these people to
Australia whether they’re sick or not and I can tell you that because I was
actually in a pretty significant refugee event where a very prominent leader
in this area of very prominently a well known and with huge connections and
significant power looked at the audience and with a smile said I guarantee you
that I will find two doctors for every single one of the people on Madison
Nauru to sign off their transfer to Australia tomorrow if this bill passes
and so that is actually the plan and that’s why a CEO would say such a thing
doctors are great people and very few would do that but there are those out
there who are activists that will and you say well what’s wrong with that well
the government is saying that it’s because you will return quickly to the
circumstances we had before which is 50,000 arriving by boat in a very short
period of time 1200 actually dead in the water and people smuggling and the
trading and human misery and human lives will start again now you can say that
that’s all rhetoric I’m prepared to accept that that is probably true
probably true theirs I’m prepared to accept that there’s a very real risk of
that because of the movement of asylum seekers around the world there’s so much
of it and because of the issue with the displaced persons and boats and all the
rest of it which is now a global issue and because of the 2013 experience when
Kevin Rudd changed the policy and all this happened we’ve seen it before I’m
prepared to accept there’s a very real a material risk that will go back to
square one and I am in touch with people who know their business on this and
they’re not partisan types they’re thoughtful types and they say that if we
lose control again they are highly doubtful and I know the government’s in
possession of advice to this effect highly highly doubtful that we’ll be
able to get it back that probably will be the nail in the coffin and the
overwhelming problem will recommence there’s security issues with that
there’s lots of borders issues and to be honest there’s chaos there’s people
smuggling there’s the drownings we can be humane
we really can but we can also be wise I understand the situation as it prevails
is not ideal there is no ideal situation here but the rhetoric that’s been put out
there is often misleading and the Phelps bill is put forward not by people who
are just concerned about the 1,000 people who are on Madison Nauru and to
met that I meet that unmet expectation of bringing them to Australia the Phelps
bill is put up by people who don’t believe in national sovereignty and who
don’t believe in borders and they hate the fact that there is any policy on
this at all and they’re trying to dismantle it and I don’t think we should
be so naive as to think that there’s anything else at play here because that
is what is actually at play borders are legitimate God says the times in the
dwelling places of the nations I’m quite sure that nationai shion’s and national
sovereignty is real and ever since Babel there has been the need for
nation-states but I do believe as much as I believe in borders I do believe in
generosity and I think we should have a very very generous humanitarian program
to back up strong borders so that we can choose the most needy and the most
vulnerable and we can be good to them we can give them a home and we can prevent
all the suffering with the drownings and all the suffering with the processing of
asylum seekers but we can actually allow genuine refugees to come to Australia in
far greater numbers than we otherwise could we should do that and we should
keep pressure on the government to do that but most of all I believe in wisdom
and let me close with this you know wisdom is a very vital Christian virtue
it is as vital as compassion or anything else and you know when sovereign came to
government as Solomon the wisest man Solomon came to government as a king he
prayed for wisdom first and foremost why he said so that I might discern what is
good and what is evil what is right and what is wrong and we live in a fallen
world and the dynamic is such that we can do things that look in the moment to
be good and right but they can actually lead to hurt and harm and destruction
but we can also do things that are firm and harsh but that actually are for good
and governments always have this problem governments always have to walk this
line and it’s a formidable difficult line which is why Solomon said how am I
to govern this great people of yours he says to God give me wisdom that I might
know the difference did you know this exam
like when he cuts a goes to cut a baby in half there’s nothing compassionate to
that woman in that moment I say I’m gonna cut your baby and raising a sword
over your head and all the rest of it someone in that group thought was in
imminent fear of the baby dying but it was very wise it was a very wise because
right was done at a good outcome came I think we should pursue that and I think
that we should make sure that we try and walk that line at all times of saying
you know what this is a fallen world so let’s be wise and in our wisdom let’s
try and do that which is ultimately right and good and also that which is
compassionate do good be wise that’s my closing comment I’m not a mouthpiece for
any government and I never will be but I understand the wisdom of what’s
going on in all the things that I have just described and I am concerned about
those who perpetuate untruths to try and undermine it you may disagree with me on
the details that’s fine because as I said there’s no perfect place on this
one but we must not only want to do good and be compassionate but wisdom must
prevail in all things thank you for listening and I’m not going to close off
just there because I have one thing to say which is this next week
on the truth of it I’m actually going to open by announcing some exciting news in
relation to ACL so I will see you then that was the truth of it

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