AD(H)D and Learning Disorders

Host: Welcome to “It’s All in Your Head,”
presented by Swingle & Associates in Vancouver. If you’re a mom, we salute you
today with a subject that has led to many different opinions, discussions and
treatment options. We’re talking about Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity
Learning Disorders. The star of our show heads up a clinic that offers completely
natural drug-free treatment for these kinds of issues. For seven years, he
lectured at a little school you may have heard of called Harvard. Prior to that, he
chaired the Faculty of Child Psychology at the University of Ottawa and was
clinical supervisor there for ten years ending in 1997. Since then, he’s been here
in Vancouver and is one of the leaders in biofeedback in neurotherapy, a safe
medically certified treatment to a wide range of conditions that originate in
your head. Good morning Dr. Paul Swingle. Dr Swingle: Good morning. Host: Today we are going to talk about what biofeedback and neurotherapy is and how it works, why taking drugs like Ritalin is the worst thing your child can do, the differences
between ADD, ADHD and other learning disorders and why that a learning
disability may not be a learning disability at all, but instead a trauma
that has your child completely distracted, possibly depressed and it
could even be a head injury. We’ll also be taking your calls with regards to
these types of learning challenges or any other brain related conditions. Well
let’s start with what you do on a daily basis and you know this is something
that brings a lot of people to your clinic, ADD and ADHD, and we’ll start with
the diagnosis and you say that it’s one of those very commonly misdiagnosed
conditions. Dr. Swingle: Yes, this is a wonderful topic for Mother’s Day. The first thing I’d
like to say to mothers is remember, you outrank everybody; it’s your child, you
make the rules. Don’t allow yourself to be pressured
into anything. A lot of mothers don’t really appreciate that fact and they get
pushed all over the place by teachers who want their children sedated by
physicians who want to do this and that and the other thing, and even neurotherapists.
I just want to emphasize on Mother’s Day, Mothers, you outrank everybody. Okay,
having said that, ADD and ADHD, a wastebasket diagnosis: any child who’s
having any difficulty is very likely to be dumped into that basket and
sedated. We have an appalling record in terms of how we treat our children. We
have communities in this area in which 50% of the male children between 8 and
12 years of age are on a psychotropic medication…that’s an outrage. The
frequency of something like ADD should be about 3% in the population. So if we
looked at how many kids should be on some sort of medication for this sort of
problem, it should be in the range of 3% or so. Now there are many many forms of ADD. If you look at the psychiatric manual, they only talk about three types:
Inattentive, Hyperactive and Combined. When you do the brainwave assessment and look at the neurology of it, there are at least a dozen subtypes of conditions
that will give rise to problems of sustained focus in children. The
traditional classic form of ADD, which I refer to as Common ADD, I’ve done a few
papers on these things. What that is is an excessive amount of slow frequency
activity in the brain and these slow frequencies are associated with sleep,
daydreaming, mind wandering and if you’re putting out too much of that, then a child
has a tendency to drift and there are some really frustrating forms of this in
which when you challenge the child, it gets worse. The brain might actually look
okay at rest, but you get the child to read or count back with whatever and
this excessive slow frequency emerges and as I said, the harder he tries, the
worse it gets. It’s enormously frustrating. If there’s too
much of the slow activity, the brain is really hypoactive and it’s painful for
the child to sit still. It’s hard for us to really understand that concept, but
it’s painful for them to sit still so what do they do? They bounce around and
the bouncing around is self medicating behavior; they are self-stimming. So
that’s the hyperactivity component of it. Now, you can medicate these things and
the evidence is compelling – after three years, the assessment of the medicated
and a non-medicated child: there’s no difference between medication and
placebo. As a lead in – can I read a little note from a
pediatrician? Host: Absolutely. Dr. Swingle: Is this a good time to do that? Host: Perfect. Dr. Swingle: All I have to do is find and write… Host: I’m sorry I was drifting off there, I wasn’t paying attention. (laughs) Dr. Swingle: Okay the title of this is “Whose
Prescription is it Anyway,” and it’s Dr. Howard Marquel from the University of
Michigan, Medical School. He talked about ‘The mother walks in with the child. The
day we met she had already decided what she wanted to do. I was being told to
write a prescription for Ritalin.’ Now we’re going to get into the direct drug company to patient advertising that we see and the devastating effect that its
having on our culture. That’s a reflection of that and this is a quote
from the pediatrician though. Quote: “Many teachers and parents of kids with ADD
prefer their charges to be medicated and many children resist these attempts. Here
is my dilemma,” writes the pediatrician, “the boy’s mother, and not the boy, wanted
the prescription. The Lord defines a fourteen-year-old as a minor, but given
that his condition was hardly fatal and essentially a behavioral issue, to whom
should I have listened? The mother or the child? The mother wants a more
controllable child, the boy simply wants to be what he perceives his true self to
be.” He continues, “Each month I see the boy to renew his prescription for Ritalin
and to make sure that there are no serious side effects.” There are serious
side effects of these things which we’ll get into. “At each visit, he greets me with
a deep-rooted, but quiet anger. His fidgeting and outbursts seemed to have
diminished, but there has been little improvement in schoolwork. Last year, he
barely passed the eighth grade and his mother admitted that two of his teachers
simply elected to pass him to avoid a repeat year with him.” Quote: “Nevertheless,
the mother is delighted with the results.” So what is the medication doing here? It
has nothing at all to do with the kids achievement. Schoolwork hasn’t improved,
the teachers are passing him to get rid of him, but he’s sedated. now the beauty
of neurotherapy and other kinds of treatments that address brain activity
is they change the problem where it resides and that’s a neurological issue.
When you correct that, the symptom abates, the developmental process kicks in
and does our work for us and once it’s fixed, it’s fixed. You medicate it, three
years later you’re going to have the same problem and in adulthood you can
have a continuation of these problems unless you continue to medicate them and
we’ll go into some adult implications of the ADD a little later in the broadcast.
Host: Well let’s talk exactly about what neurotherapy does and what biofeedback
is when we continue. Dr. Paul Swingle is here from Swingle and Associates, a
clinic on Melville Street in Vancouver. His telephone number there is 604-608-0444 and being that it’s Mother’s Day, we’re
talking about ADD and ADHD and let’s get into neurotherapy and biofeedback.
If you’re new to this program, you may have heard the term before, but you’re
not familiar with exactly what it is and what it does. Let’s talk about what it is
you do, Dr. Swingle, that you’ve done so well for so long. Dr. Swingle: It’s really very simple. What we look at is the functioning of the brain. Now, a lot of folks are
familiar with scans and MRIs and that sort of thing, what they do is they look
at the structure of the brain. What we look at is the functioning of the brain.
The electroencephalograph, the EEG. Most listeners are familiar with the EEG if
somebody they know has a seizure disorder they’re very likely to have had
a hospital EEG. We’re now able to do full head maps as a simple in-office
procedure. We can actually look at subcortical structures within the brain
with simple in-office electroencephalographic assessments. What we look for are areas of inefficiency in the way the brain is processing
information. That permits me to tell a person why they’ve come to see me. We
don’t ask a person why they come. We do an assessment and tell them why they’re
there. The same is true with ADD, there are many many many different forms of neurological conditions that give rise to attention
problems and kids. Now once we isolate an area of inefficiency, the way its
corrected is referred to as neurotherapy. The backbone of neurotherapy is
electroencephalographic biofeedback, brainwave biofeedback. What we do is we
set it up so that when the brain is doing what we want it to do, the child
hears a tone to see something move on the screen. Now we make that as a form of
a video game that they play with their brain. So when the brain’s doing something we want it to do, PacMan runs across the screen, bugs run up and down, they have horse races, all kinds of things. They drive
high speed cars on courses and so forth. The car doesn’t move unless the brain is
doing what we want it to do. That’s the secret. The second class of treatments
are the brain drivers. These were developed largely by myself and my clinics
at Harvard and here in Vancouver. What we do is we measure a particular
aspect of brain functioning. Based on that measurement, we stimulate with light
and sound. With adults we also use electromagnetic fields, micro-average the
stimulation and so forth, to nudge the brain into more normal functional ranges.
Now the advantage of those procedures is that the child can be tasking for
example reading or writing something or answering questions while the area
responsible for that activity is under treatment. Enormously effective
treatment procedures you might imagine. Our learning expert, Mari, has been able
to teach kids to read in six or seven sessions because you’re addressing the
specific area associated with that activity. The third class of treatments
are home-based things that we give the parent to use at home that we know
influences the brain and the particular way. Things like harmonic sounds for
example. The good news, once it’s fixed it’s fixed. And it’s safe, there are no
side effects associated with it other than the IQ goes up by the way. So the
child may become insufferably intelligent. There was recent article
from Harvard Medical School paediatrician there, Dr. Katie Campbell, and the quote she has: “the therapy most promising by recent clinical trials appears to be EEG
biofeedback.” Host: Well you’ve had patients, kids, come in and I’ve known one of them
actually and it was funny after the initial brain mapping assessment, the
very first visit you have with the child, he said to his parents after you
talked back to them and said, well you know, these are maybe things you’re
feeling or going through, he said on the way home, “he read my mind.” And in that it was very interesting because he was very, very
reluctant to go through the treatments and he, you know there’s a lot of
skepticism I’m sure that you’re dealing with is one of the reasons why you’re
here, but after that he wanted to go to the clinic and he wanted to continue
with the treatments. My question is, is there something that kids, or adults for
that matter, can do that will actually make the treatments less effective;
is there anything you could do that that actually makes the treatments more
effective perhaps. Dr. Swingle: There are a lot of things associated with treatment
efficacy. One of the most critical things is who’s administering it. This is true
of all therapies, Neurofeedback and neurotherapy is not a standalone discipline.
There are other things that we have to do: behavioral therapy, all kinds of things.
The one thing that we know from the clinical literature is one of the most
important features of any treatment is who’s doing it. So the therapist variable
is really critical, it matters a lot so that not all physicians are the same.
There’s no equivalence of treatment in that sense; one physician can be better
than another one, everybody understands that. Well one neurotherapist can be better than another and I think everybody
understands that as well. The second thing is commitment of a
client, that’s why we pay so much attention to speaking to the child. When
parents come in with their children, I talked to the child. I asked the child what they collect and you know, what kind of problems they’re
having and as this child said, I read his mind, but I was talking to him. And when we get that kind of level of commitment, it makes a huge difference in
terms of the efficacy of treatment. Host: When we continue with ‘It’s All in Your Head,’ is your child training themselves to be Attention Deficit? They might be by doing
something that you see you may think is really not all that serious, but they
might be doing it every day and they may be becoming ADD because of it. That sounds possible… Is that possible and what are they doing Dr. Swingle? Dr. Swingle: they’re not
outside climbing trees, playing baseball and looking for toads in the woods.
That’s what they’re not doing. In other words, they’re sitting in front of TV screens
either watching TV or playing video games. We have compelling evidence that it’s toxic. There are a lot of reasons for
that. Let’s just take TV as an example. The images change every few seconds. Now what kind of effect does that have on a child who has difficulty sustaining
attention? It doesn’t take Sigmund Freud to figure that out. What you’re doing is
you’re training shorter and shorter periods of ability to sustain focused
attention. The video games are addictive. The way they sustain attention is
ever-increasing levels of stimulation. Now every parent who has a child that
plays an hour so a video games a day knows that it’s addictive because when
they try to get the child away from the video game, the child gets angry. They
sneak the video games. They do all the things that you would expect of an
addict. If the game is a search-and-destroy
metaphor game, then you have compounded problems because theres compelling
evidence that it increases aggressiveness, which of course would
make sense. If you have a search-and-destroy metaphor game that
the child is spending hours and a day on, you’re training an emotional reaction to
dealing with a problem and that’s dealing with it in an emotionally
aggressive fashion. So my advice to parents: treat it as toxic. If it’s a
social event, it’s a different issue. Friday night, the family is sitting down
watching their favorite program, watching a movie, this social interaction that’s a
different issue all together. Now if you use TV as a babysitter for a child that’s under a year of age, theres an area of
the brain that doesn’t develop and it’s that serious. So we’re not only dealing
with a behavioral social issue here but we’re dealing with a neurological issue
as well and I think mothers intuitively know this. That’s why I said at the
beginning of the program, mothers outrank everybody. If you feel that the TV is no
good, you outrank everybody; the TV goes. Period. Host: He’s Dr. Paul Swingle from Swingle & Associates. Telephone number: (604) 608-0444. This is information that I think some people don’t want to hear by the way. I coach a soccer team,
under thirteen year old boys, and one thing that has changed in the video game
and and you talked about social time together is this Nintendo Wii because
you actually do actions and you actually play with your friends and family, which
is makes it active and still a video game, but at least you’re doing it as a
group. But I’ve seen those boys sometimes stay up till 2:00 in the morning. They come out of their darkened rooms, red in the face, to come downstairs to
get junk food and then go back up there and it is like it’s like drugs. Dr. Swingle: Absolutely.
Host: So video games, TV, bad and there’s a collective gulp I’m hearing
all over British Columbia right now. You’re listening to it’s all in your
head with Dr. Paul Swingle. We’re talking about ADD and ADHD. When a parent and a
child comes into your clinic, what do they normally talk about and what do
they normally ask you or say that symptoms are? Because one of the big
things you talked about right off the top is misdiagnosis and you’re finding
that it’s not an attention deficit issue, but there are other more insidious
underlying issues that are being, that are happening to the child.
Dr. Swingle: That again is one of the merits of neurotherapy because we do a neurological assessment
and if we don’t see anything there and the parent is reporting attention
learning problems, it may well be that the child has had a head injury, for
example, or what is very common is trauma. The one area that is really problematic
is bullying. Now if the child is frightened and traumatized, they’re obviously going to have learning problems. They’re going
to be afraid to go to school, the mother may recognize some somatic
complaints the child has – ‘Oh I have a headache,’ ‘Oh I have a stomachache,’ and the stomachache improves markedly on the weekends…you know, that kind of thing.
Something’s going on and if we find that there’s no evidence of any neurological
reason for the ADD, then we investigate some of these other areas. Now if the
trauma is severe enough, we pick it up on the electroencephalograph. There is a
trauma signature, if we see that then the flags go up.
Host: It could be that specific, that when you look at a brain assessment you could tell right away what it is. And
when other people think it’s ADD and they just have to go to the the
pharmacist or the doctor and get the drugs to sedate, they may actually be
masking a deeper problem.
Dr. Swingle: Absolutely. Host: Is there a relationship between ADD and addiction?
Dr. Swingle: Yes there’s quite a substantial relationship between the
risk of it and ADD ADHD. First of all, stimulants like Ritalin are controlled
substances, they can be abused. There’s a lot of conditions under which Ritalin is
being sold in schoolyards, for example. It is a drug of abuse or can be a drug of
abuse. So that’s one side of the equation. The other side of this is if Ritalin is
effective in reducing hyperactivity in the child then that makes sense in terms
of ADD being a predisposition to self-medicating behavior, which is what
addiction is. And what we find is that people who are diagnosed with ADD or
ADHD, the time from substance abuse to substance addiction is shorter. The
number of individuals who become substance abusers is higher. The duration
of the problem is longer. So you have a lot of indicators indicating that
there’s a neurological issue associated with that. Now on the other side of it,
when you have a hyperactivity problem the child is very likely to be isolated
and stigmatized in school because of his behavior. Being marginalized and
stereotyped can lead to criminal behavior. So you have a higher degree of
criminality associated with children who have carried these diagnoses and a
higher level of criminality can lead to substance experimentation, substance
abuse and so. So you have a lot of things contributing to this. The type of ADD is
important in terms of the predisposition to which kinds of addictions. Now the
alcohol link is very interesting. Children of alcoholics have a higher
probability of showing the same deficiency that’s associated with
genetically predisposed to alcoholism. Now a lot of these kids are diagnosed
with ADD or ADHD, where really what it is is a predisposition to alcoholism or
other addictions. In other words, a predisposition to self-medicating
behavior. Now if you sedate that problem with Ritalin or something of that nature,
these are the kids that usually develop tics and sleep disturbances when they
are medicated for the ADD with Ritalin. The reason for that is the problem
they’re having is an area of the brain that’s deficient in terms of self-quieting and if you add a stimulant to that, you make the problem worse. Now you haven’t done anything to deal with the predisposition to alcoholism, you haven’t
done anything to deal with the attention problem when they were a kid, so this
kids a time bomb waiting to go off in terms of drug addiction alcohol
addiction and so forth and serious problems in school. This is again one of
the major advantages of doing a brain assessment because you identify that
right off the bat. This is not a typical ADD issue, this is a predisposition to
self-medicating behavior because the brain lacks the capability for self-quieting. You address that problem, you solve a lot of problems and not only ADD, but a future predisposition. Host: You had a very interesting comment about one type of medication that is supposedly better than a current type of
medication, and there’s a reason behind that.
Dr. Swingle: Well it’s interesting if you’re told that you should be switching from
Adderall to Vyvanse, you might be interested to know that the drug company
shear is losing their patent protection for Adderall in April of 2009. And the
Vyvanse is the substitute which has patent protection for probably another
ten years or so. So if you’re being switched from one to another, it’s an interesting coincidence.
Host: Wow, I’m only starting to get really anti-Pharma in
the last little while. I know you’ve been there for a long time, but-
Dr. Swingle: Well you know, there’s a place for medication and we work with a lot of physicians if a
medication gets you from place A to place B until you can get the
situation resolved. And a lot of physicians really understand, you know, work with us very closely with regard to that. Host: Let’s go to the phone and talk to Colin. Hi Colin!
Colin: Hey, how you doing? Okay Doctor, I’ve got a 13 year old son who, over the last number
of years, I’ve been trying very hard to get a label put on and and thankfully I
did because I know there was something there was something there, but what it is
he’s just tipped over the scale of ASD, Autism Spectrum Disorder, and one
of the things the psychiatrist handling the case was telling me was, if you can
get him through high school, then life is going to be a lot easier. Its those high
school years that are going to be the cause of concern because young kids at this age are far more forgiving. I’m wondering if you’re seeing the same
thing in drug addictions and ostracization, isolation with ASD
patients or do you even work with ASD patients?
Dr. Swingle: Yes we see a lot of ASD
patients in my clinic. We’re one of the few clinics in North America that will
accept very severe autistic clients. There are a lot of symptoms of ASD that
are very similar to the ones of ADD and ASD is treatable with neurotherapy. You
have to be very careful about medicating ASD because you
can really exacerbate the problem, when you medicate these things. I would
suggest, Colin, that you have a look at a website and it’s called That website is associated with a book by the same name, ‘Getting Adam Back,’ written by Arlene Martell, a very courageous mother. Arlene’s son was diagnosed with epilepsy and autism. And she was told at one point
to put her child in a crash helmet and institutionalize him. And being a mother
and understanding that she outranks everybody including a lunatic that said
that, she decided no way and the picture on the front of her book is Adam in a
tuxedo, graduating from high school. And she talks about all of the things that
she had to deal with and the treatments that she used including neurotherapy,
including diet and a number of other things. So my advice is be very cautious
about how you approach this, look at the behaviour treatments associated with it,
and I would certainly do neurotherapy for any autistic spectrum disorders.
Host: Thank you for your phone call, Colin. Dr. Swingle is live for another 15
minutes or so. Just had a phone call from Colin, he was asking about his 13 year
old son who has autism spectrum disorder. He was asking about caffeine and told
that perhaps maybe a caffeine coffee, perhaps in the morning, might help perk him up, but he’s noticed lately there’s been a resistance to that.
What do you know about caffeine and ADD or autism spectrum disorder?
Dr Swingle: Caffeine is a stimulant and the treatment of ADD is central nervous
stimulant. So yes you would expect caffeine might improve the situation. However, it’s very short acting, you know, the half-life is very short on
caffeine so that you might get a temporary improvement. The downside of it, of course, is if he has any conditions that are associated with elevated
stimulation or poor stress tolerance, then you’re going to get pretty negative
effects of caffeine: tics, sleep disturbance, things of that nature.
Host: You’re listening to ‘It’s All in Your Head,’ he’s Dr. Paul Swingle from Swingle &
Associates on Melville Street in Downtown Vancouver. The clinic’s
telephone number is (604) 608-0444. So is there a difference in gender with regards to ADD, ADHD? Is one gender more
likely to be susceptible than another? And then we’ll talk about adult ADD.
What about boys and girls and ADHD? Dr. Swingle: This is some of the more interesting data from a lot of the research that’s been done. In young children, the ratio runs a
roughly 4:1 males to females that varies depending upon what kind of ADD they’re talking about, but basically, 4:1. When you get up into adults,
it’s about even. Now it’s interesting to speculate why that’s so. If you look at
how many kids are diagnosed with ADD, it’s overwhelmingly male, and the reason
for that is they’re the ones that are causing grief in the classroom. They’re the ones that are acting out, being more aggressive and so forth.
There’s also a form of ADD that goes markedly undiagnosed in females and
it’s called the high-frontal alpha, alpha being a brain wave form of ADD. When you
have elevated alpha in the front part of the brain, you get excessive
talkativeness, fighting this inability to stay on focus. These are the kids that
are bouncing around being very social, chatting it up and driving the teacher
crazy. Why does that go undiagnosed in females?
Host: Because we have a notion that
perhaps that’s just normal female behaviour. Dr. Swingle: (laughs) I see. Okay, and then I have these females arrive on my doorstep at forty years of age seriously depressed. Their careers are in shambles, they can’t sustain a job, they
can’t sustain a relationship and the problem was they had a form of ADD that
very severely interferes with achievement. It affects planning,
organizing, sequencing and following through on things. So these folks just
have a terrible time of it and they were undiagnosed as kids. Therefore, their
academic performance and achievement levels are usually markedly
affected. We see a lot of adults with ADD and the treatment again is we correct
the problem where it resides in the head. Now it’s interesting with adults because
you have a history here of having to cope with the ADD. They’re very likely
to have had serious problems with sustaining a job. They’re very likely to
have had serious problems with addiction, alcoholism. With males, the problem is
that very often they incorporate the ADD symptom as part of their personality
as the way they cope with it and they will sit down and present themselves as,
I’m just an easygoing, laid-back, disorganized kind of guy. I look them in the
eye and say, you don’t believe that for a moment. What you’re telling me is how
you’re coping with the ADD by making that a positive property of the way
you’re defining yourself. So in treating the male, we have to deal with that
baggage in addition to dealing with the neurotherapy. We don’t have that problem
with a kid. Same is true with females, they have a history of having to cope
with all of this stuff so they had a core and emotional belief about
themselves as self-loathing. We have to correct that self-loathing. Now the other
thing that we find with adult ADD is you have a lot of comorbid behaviors and
they tend to be social, antisocial histrionic kind of things, personality
disorders in other words. And the personality disorders involve the
frontal cortex, which is a form of ADD that goes undiagnosed in female children.
It all kind of fits together, you know, it makes sense in terms of looking at how
this plays out. Now if you medicate at an early age, that’s not going to affect
anything. You’re not going to change those conditions. So the sooner that we
correct it, the more rapidly the process. Host: You’re talking about some of those
personality issues, can you give us an example of some of those things
that you see in adult ADD for women or men? Dr. Swingle: It’s your histrionics narcissistic behaviour, the personality disorders associated with individuals who are
clinging. There’s a high degree of dependence because they need somebody else to verify their self-worth because their core
emotional belief about themselves is so negative. So all of those things are
personality disorders and they’re associated, A) with imbalances in the
frontal cortex and problems in the frontal cortex in terms of the
functioning of those self regulatory areas. And secondarily, the secondary
effects of core emotional belief which is very negative because they haven’t
been able to get anywhere. They haven’t been able to sustain a job, they’re not
where they want to be and their only conclusion is that they’re losers.
Host: So let’s get back to the treatments. The part of the game that your clinic has done so
very well for literally almost thousands of people now, since you’ve been around
in Vancouver, and the first and most important thing about the initial
diagnosis is that you can pinpoint with razor sharpness, the core of the problem
so there is no misdiagnosis. And that’s one of the reasons why you’re here
talking about it.
Dr. Swingle: Yes exactly, that’s really the tremendous benefit of neurotherapy, is that the diagnostic process allows us to identify the exact nature
of the problem. This by the way is one of the reasons why people want to be very
cautious about who they go to to have their neurotherapy done. We have a real
problem with hobbyists who get involved with doing what they call ‘brainwave
biofeedback.’ They buy the equipment, they get minimal training and they do
one-size-fits-all and there are a fair number of them popping up around the
Vancouver area. Dr. Corey Hammond, University of Utah, Medical School,
published a number of papers on warnings associated with people that don’t carry
licenses to practice some health discipline like medicine, psychology,
chiropractic, whatever. It’s not a standalone discipline. The neurotherapy
is integrated into other kinds of treatment modalities, so you want to be
very cautious about that. Now having said that, when we do the brain wave
assessment, we can tell precisely what the problem is and exactly where to go
to treat it and it may not be neuro- therapy. It may be a behavioural problem.
If a child’s being bullied in school, one of these hobbyists can do neurotherapy until the cows come home, nothings going to happen, but if we identify that
as a bullying problem, then there are other methods that we use to treat that
child’s attention learning problems, that has nothing at all to do with neurotherapy, but we identified it with neurotherapy. Host: The telephone number at Dr. Swingle’s Clinic is (604) 608-0444 and you could visit his website on the web
at and find out more about the conditions that are
treatable aside from just ADD and ADHD and autism spectrum disorder and all
those things. Adults, kids, it doesn’t matter, you have patients of all ages including
the elderly patients where you do brain brightening and all those kind of things.
And just to talk about the cost very quickly of neurotherapy and how much is
it and is it covered by regular medical or you have to have extended medical?
Dr. Swingle: Okay, I had the best bargain on the planet because once it’s fixed it’s
fixed and the break-even point with things like Ritalin is about a year and
a half. The intake assessment is a 180 dollars and the treatments vary between 105 and 150 per session. A common
ADD problem may be 15 sessions, something of that nature, to put it to bed.
It is not covered by the provincial medical plan which is an outrage. It is
covered by extended medical. Now there are caps on extended medical so whatever
they pay for a registered clinical psychologist is what you’ll get back.
What isn’t covered, and this is an advantage, is a tax-deductible medical
expense. Do I have time for one little thing? Host: Absolutely.
Dr. Swingle: Talking or walking in your sleep is linked to lower risk of attention problems. Host: Interesting.
Dr. Swingle: So we’ll leave the listeners with that.
Host: Alright, well thats good.

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